April 19, 2024

Your primary residence isn't the ultimate investment

On this week's episode, Kristen, Dame, and Pete, combat a local credit union's assertion that a primary residence is the ultimate wealth generation tool. Needless to say, it's not.

Episode Transcript

Peter Dunn: [00:00:00] Our outage earlier

Damian Dunn: this week.

Peter Dunn: Okay. We're live. Wow. That took a lot. So we were worried that we weren't going to be able to go to air. Cause we got like a death spinning wheel there. Hello everybody. If you two were worried that Kristen would not be here today, I get it. Taylor Swift with a surprise double album, whatever that means came out overnight and we are so lucky that Kristen has decided to work today.

Kristen. Hello. Hello. Dame the album was described this morning in the New York Times as daggers masquerading as lullabies. Daggers masquerading as lullabies. Okay.

Damian Dunn: That's pretty good. Yeah, I mean, it's just.

Kristen Ahlenius: Pretty accurate,

Damian Dunn: actually.

Kristen Ahlenius: Yeah,

Damian Dunn: it just

Peter Dunn: seems like

Damian Dunn: everything that

Peter Dunn: she's built her empire on, honestly.

Dame, how nice is it to not just be and co today? We actually have. Kristen of andcofame. Hello, Kristen. [00:01:00]

Kristen Ahlenius: I, a girl misses one week.

Peter Dunn: But you're sort of the glue. It says it in a single iTunes review. It's the glue. Gospel now, yeah. Dame, as mentioned 167 hours ago it's good to talk to you again for the first time in a week.

Damian Dunn: I joked at the very end of the show. I was like, I'll talk to you in a week. And lo and behold,

Peter Dunn: There was another joke made at the end of last week's show that you and I both received a text message about earlier this week when a member of our team of and co said the show went fast because we didn't have all of Kristen's yapping.

That was, of course, a joke and listening back to it. It didn't sound as jokey as I meant it to be.

Kristen Ahlenius: It didn't really come across jokey at all.

Peter Dunn: It really didn't, but Damon, you and I were connected on the joke, right? Or

Damian Dunn: are you bailing out? I gotta be honest, I thought I said it when she said [00:02:00] the comment. I was like, oh, that's something I probably said.

So when she texted us this week, you thought you're the one that said she was yappy. Yeah, I thought that, I thought it was me. I have, I was,

Peter Dunn: I was like, yeah, hand up. That was me. No, I meant, I said it sort of like tongue in cheek from a, like a gender perspective. And then it, I know, I know, I know, but it didn't play when I heard back.


Kristen Ahlenius: was like, oh, okay, that's fine.

Peter Dunn: No, no, I'm the yapper. Hello, Jason. Hello, Rick Swink. Good morning, Jason Brown. Good morning. Caitlin, your sister is here to defend your honor. Andy, David and Danza. Is Caitlin like Taylor Swift as much as you do? Correct. Yeah.

Damian Dunn: Should we should we try and have Chris Taylor Swift?

No, Chris. Yeah. Let's have Taylor on. I have a. Kristen employed GPT to write a song that uses lullabies, masses, daggers, daggers, whatever it was about the two of us.

Kristen Ahlenius: Pete's already puttin it. I'm on

Peter Dunn: it. Dame, last [00:03:00] week on the show, we, we talked briefly, I did, and, and we, but we did exchange some thoughts on DJT stock and how it was just like crumbling, man, has it gotten more interesting this week on a really technical way?

You and I exchanged some thoughts. I'm officially hooked to this story, not because of the fall of this or who's getting hung out the dry. We're talking. Accusations of naked short selling, which is, which is the thing we're talking about advice to shareholders of how to make sure your shares can't get loaned out for short sellers.

I'm officially hooked as this might be my favorite stock story of all time.

Damian Dunn: It's amazing. I mean, you and I both said there were certain things that we weren't aware of that you could even do in certain. Situations and this is, this is very much one of them. And the fact that it's the company giving some of this advice to say, Hey, talk to your people about making sure your shares [00:04:00] can't be used for short selling makes it even that much more interesting.

It is. I, I have to admit, I just kind of, Ignored you as you were like, Oh, this is great. This is, this is, I'm, I'm in. And then you sent me that and I'm like, you know, this is getting really interesting.

Peter Dunn: Yeah. I think me being into it really last week really more spoke to. where I line up on things, but now it's taken on a new level.

Kristen, do you get fascinated with sort of market stories like this of like the technicality of short selling? Are you not as much of a nerd on this particular topic as Damon and I?

Kristen Ahlenius: This is not a topic that I nerd out on for some reason. And I, and I've been known to nerd out about some stuff like this, just not, not this one.

Peter Dunn: Well, we know your nerd spot is the world of student loans, which has had a pretty interesting week, but we're not going to bore anyone with that today with all your yapping. We are, what are we talking about today? We have not done any, [00:05:00] I have some thoughts. I do want to talk about, I saw this post from a credit union and putting on a workshop about how your primary residence is the ultimate wealth building tool.

And I would love to. Beat the pants off of that in the show here today. What else do you got?

Kristen Ahlenius: We could do a stock market update or a stock pick.

Peter Dunn: First quarter. Have we done that recently? Not for the first quarter. Okay. We'll do that. And then what else we want?

Kristen Ahlenius: There's a question about sequence of return risk.

Peter Dunn: Is it in the channel? No, no. Okay. Well then one of you gets to yap on about it. It's, can I complain for a second or should we do the show? No, I got time. It's your show. I don't think it is, Kristen. That's why I was asking Kristen. Kristen, may I? I suppose. Okay. By the way, Jeremiah just weighed in. He said, I thought my 401k was the ultimate wealth building tool.

Wrong. Permanent life insurance people would disagree with that. Just check social media. [00:06:00] Dave, do you remember that? I don't know. Do we ever talk about a little Twitter kerfuffle with these hardcore life insurance people from back in the day that were like 401ks are a scam. Buy life insurance. It still happens.

Well, I know, but I was like, I was involved with right. Kristen, I've, I've been single parenting this week. How's that going

Kristen Ahlenius: for your kids?

Peter Dunn: It's, You'll have to ask him. It's just one, one on one, which is much easier. Oh yeah. If a Y chromosome person was involved, it'd be a little more difficult. I think that's the right chromosome.

And I also feel like by just not giving her a name in this, it seems disassociated. But anyway, the ladies are in somewhere else. And so Theodore and I are just, are, are manning it this week. It's going pretty well, but I'll tell ya, I've for four days, I'm on my own five days, newfound respect for working single parents, and I'm barely scratching the surface of [00:07:00] what it is to actually, this is like a novelty to me.

I, I, I'm humbled by how I

Damian Dunn: mean, it's, it's an absolute challenge. I, you, I mean, the, the closest I get to it is busy season for, for accountants, but, and I some would argue, I still don't do enough during busy season to hold up my end of the, of the responsibilities, but it's, it would just be a challenge.

I can't even begin to fathom to making that my daily life. I've sort of

Peter Dunn: gotten the groove a little bit, but it's freaking hard. What was ridiculous, of course, is I'm at Theodore soccer practice and I'm talking to a single mom who, who does this every day with two kids and runs around everywhere. I wasn't complaining to her cause I realized that that would be bad, but she was giving me tips on how to make it work like, man, I'm the worst.

Is there a column coming? No no, no. I was on the IBJ podcast, which is coming out Monday [00:08:00] this coming Monday, or if you're listening to this on the podcast yesterday and the topic, my topic was what can your lifetime earnings tell you about your financial life? And, and Dame, if you remember the millionaire course thing that we did a few years ago, they touched on that, but I hadn't really thought or talked or written about that topic since then.

And so I sort of just gave it a run on the podcast for the IBJ. I'm not sure it was good. Not sure that's going to work out.

I'm embarrassed.

Damian Dunn: Yeah, the the other thing that you did a few years ago, I don't remember. I think it was, maybe it was in the ND star. I can't remember. But you took like an income level and just kind of what your financial life looked like. It might be interesting to do another pass at that with, with how things have changed.

Peter Dunn: I, you know, I'll tell you that was a really [00:09:00] practical, yeah, that would be a good thing to revisit. I'll put it on my to do list. Sure. It is currently item number 164. Yeah, great. Okay, let's do a show. What's the first let's do stock picks. It gets the people moving. Gets the people moving. I know neither of you are busy, so we can take our time here.

That was a joke. Everyone's overworked. Okay, three, two, one. This week on the Pete the Planner Show, we answer your money questions. Here's how the show works. You email us askpete at petetheplanner. com. That's askpete at petetheplanner. com, and here's what'll happen. Well, if you don't email us, we get to make up our own segments, which I don't really care to do.

So email us, askpete at Pete, the planner. com. The show is also at times called Kristen and Co. The founder of Kristen Co joins us now. Kristen Alanius. Hello, Kristen. Hello, Pete. Good to be with you. Major Taylor Swifty and [00:10:00] Damien Dunn, who's just swift himself. Very, very quick. Hello, sir. Very fleet of foot.

Yes. Good morning. The crew is back. The crew is back. It is good to all be with you. And we may even do it again next week. Okay. We make stock picks at the beginning of the year for entertainment purposes only. Isn't that correct, Damien? A hundred percent entertainment purposes

Damian Dunn: only.

Peter Dunn: Do not follow any of this advice because it's not advice.

It's just a parlor game. And today we're going to update the picks. How are they going? What's going on? Who is the keeper of this data? That would be me. Kristen, do you find it hard data or data? Whoever you, how do you say it?

Kristen Ahlenius: Data.

Peter Dunn: It's plural, right? It's a plural word. And so people often misuse it.

Kristen Ahlenius: I think I'm people.

Peter Dunn: Did you not know it was plural?

Kristen Ahlenius: I I'm thinking critically here. I'm not, [00:11:00] I think the answer to that is yes.

Peter Dunn: Yeah. I find myself slipping. Yeah. It's like our product and engineering team often uses it correctly and you can tell because it's awkward. Oh, anyway, Dame keeper of the data.

Damian Dunn: Let's go. I, you know, I have to open by saying.

Yes, this is absolutely for entertainment purposes only. But we're doing pretty good as a team. Oh, oh, wait, I'm on the team.

Peter Dunn: Does that mean I'm doing well? Shockingly. Really? Well. Oh my gosh. What did I pick?

Damian Dunn: Let's, well, I was gonna say let's start with the winners. Pete, I could give you the ticker symbol. Do you remember who you picked?

For your winner this year. The ticker symbol is H L.

Kristen Ahlenius: He has no idea. Hold

Damian Dunn: on. I got hemolyte. No, it'd be Hekla Mining. Hekla Mining. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What do we got? Pete Sofar Hekla Mining is up 22. [00:12:00] 3 percent for the year. Hey. 22. 3 percent for the year. Look at this old gal. I know. I'm so proud of you. Thanks, man.

Oh, and am I in third place? You and I are exchanging second and third because I chose Delta Airlines, I'm up 22. 29 percent What was mine? 22. 3? We're right there. Dude, this is great. I

Peter Dunn: know, I know.

Damian Dunn: And then Kristen. Kristen chose Bluebird buses and other stuff. I'm sure they make. Up 34. 8%. She's the

Peter Dunn: worst.

Damian Dunn: I don't get it.

I don't like her.

Kristen Ahlenius: I don't get it either.

Damian Dunn: Clearly you do. Cause you picked it. I mean, you've picked a lot of winners.

Peter Dunn: Yeah. You know what? I'll take our picks though. I mean, that's a, it's a robust pixel. 22, 22, 34. Who would say no to [00:13:00] that? Me, normally. Okay. Okay, so that's good. Good, good ups. How are our downs?

Well, Pete,

Damian Dunn: do you remember who you chose for your down? Yes, Big Lots. Correct. Big Lots, year to date, down 49. 2%. Let's go, Queen. Down 42 49. 2%.

Peter Dunn: Yeah.

Damian Dunn: I chose beyond meat. You may recall our last kind of mid quarter update. I, I, by the way, you just said beyond meat recall, which is, which is actually sort of funny.

Anyway, go ahead. What do you got? I took a beating mid quarter because they, I don't know, found some cash or something. And then they were actually ahead. They were making a profit. Well, in the stock market, their fortunes have changed. Pete, they are now down 20. 6 percent down 20. [00:14:00] 6%. So behind you, but what a stunning turn of events for beyond meat.

Good job. I, again, I'm not going to complain through one quarter down 20%. No problems with that.

Peter Dunn: Look, I know I know I just said good job, but allow me to say it again. I don't want to beat a dead horse. But good job. That was actually a beyond me joke.

Damian Dunn: Okay. I would say a dead horse because that's what they might be.

Peter Dunn: Okay. Yeah. Okay. But these are jokes. These are jokes

Damian Dunn: and we're on the air. Kristen chose. I don't know how. AMC AMC movie theaters. She is down 45. 6%. Pete, you are leading the losers so far through this year with 49. 25%. Wow. To go, man. That, you know

Peter Dunn: what? Thank you. I'd like to thank the little people, primarily Leonel

Damian Dunn: Messi.

He's very little. Okay. All right. S and P 500. [00:15:00] Oh, just

Kristen Ahlenius: as a quick question, the stock prices of both AMC and big lots are like the actual prices per share are like in the same, like a couple bucks a piece now, right?

Damian Dunn: Three, they're both in the 3 range. What about beyond

Kristen Ahlenius: meat

Damian Dunn: in the 6. 00 range? Dame's got more to go.

I got some room. I got some room.

Peter Dunn: I will be a penny stock before you know it That's what we do here at big lots

Damian Dunn: All right, s& p 500 up Pete. Have you been keeping track on the s& p 500 this year? I have. Do you want to take a stab at what it's up? Just off the top of your head? 6%. Kristen?

Kristen Ahlenius: 7.

Damian Dunn: 5. 67%. 5. 67%.

Pete, you had guessed a year end increase of 14%. We'll get there. I chose six. Kristen chose eight.

Peter Dunn: Okay. So this is always the most important or not the most important part. Interesting. I should say [00:16:00] like, how do you, Kristen, how do you feel about. Eight for the year. So,

Kristen Ahlenius: As that being my pick, you mean, like, do I feel like I'm, I, because it's an election year, I still feel okay.

Obviously a quarter of the way through the year we're up. What are we up game?

Damian Dunn: 5. 6.

Kristen Ahlenius: So obviously I'm off track, right? But the end of the year volatility that we might see, I don't feel I don't feel too bad about it right now.

Damian Dunn: How do you feel about your six? Same thing we got. It's an election year. We've got ever increasing conflict in the Middle East.

I think there are a lot of variables that could throw. Breaks on this. And if the Fed doesn't lower rates at any point this year, I mean, there's just so many variables out there that could just wreck this economy. Well, wreck this wreck our picks. I won't say the economy wreck our picks.

Peter Dunn: I'm toast if the Fed does not lower interest rates.[00:17:00]

I'm absolute toast. And I'm really counting on them to do so. But the last few signals Which turn out to be slightly ambiguous public comments Have me feeling like they're not going to lower interest rates. Like there's slight talk that they're going to bump one Go another quarter to point up. I

Damian Dunn: I honestly sneaky think that's what's going to happen.

Peter Dunn: I know Yikes. Man, don't they know we're trying to, like, entertainment gamble on a radio program? I know. Not investment advice. Not investment advice. All right. Anyway, so that's fun. I will note that last year, my biggest loser pick was Tesla. And I was just a year early, just a year early. What are they getting beat up?

They were, well, they cut 10 percent of their workforce yesterday, which as we all know, probably means their stock price went, I

Kristen Ahlenius: was going to say their stock price. So it went up,

Peter Dunn: 52 week low today and on the year they are down [00:18:00] 40%. Oh man, I can feel it longterm. All right, let's do this. After the break, we are going to evaluate the following statement.

And I saw. On a credit union's website, a personal residence. Your primary residence is the ultimate wealth building tool. We're going to talk about that from both sides. No, no. Actually, we're just like, what does that mean? Is it, is it real? Is that possible? All of that's next on the pizza planner show. I'm Pete, the planner.

Andy brings up a really interesting point. And I've thought of this and I'm not, I'm not sure I would have changed my picks. He says, if the DJ T stock was around when we made our picks, would we have picked it? I, I don't know. I, [00:19:00]

Damian Dunn: who knows? I think you're too emotionally invested in D. J. T. To get get behind it.

At this point, they just would have been very sad for you to have read those those highs and lows live in front of people.

Peter Dunn: Yeah, but now it is switched from emotional to like fascination from a technical standpoint. For sure. I also think. I mean, if he wins, like it could go, it could go through the roof in a really weird way, you know, real quick, I know.

And that weird, it's like, it's, it's a proxy of his brand. It's so fascinating.

Damian Dunn: Yeah. I mean, there's, there's so many things that could potentially happen, especially who boy, I'm not even going to go down that. Oh, oh, damn, get spicy. No, I just, you know, if if the scrutiny on social media companies continues to increase and yet the president is majority holder of one of [00:20:00] them does that become a favored child in, in any laws that are created somehow that there's carve out that potentially shield that from having the the same.

I didn't think you were going there. I

Peter Dunn: didn't continue.

Oh, Jameson. Hello, Jameson. I saw he is, he is laid up as they say, right now, I believe he had a, a slight medical thing he's dealing with, which, you know, I don't want to out him on the, on the radio. I just, he's okay. Everyone's okay. He's fine. He posted it on public social media. Jameson, I hope you're all right.

Hope you're recovering well, and we're glad you're fine. So he probably has more followers on his social

Damian Dunn: media than we have listeners. So it's probably okay.

Peter Dunn: Did I just break a hippa? I don't think so. I don't think so. Okay. Okay. Oh, we're his recovery guilty pleasure Apparently there are no reese's peanut butter eggs around.

Let's get started in three [00:21:00] Two one back on the pete the planner show kristen pete I was on the internet The other day I dialed in at 14, four, that was no,

Damian Dunn: I got it. That was

Peter Dunn: any chance you caught on 14 for there.

Kristen Ahlenius: Not even a little bit,

Peter Dunn: not a chance. I don't okay. Anywhere I'm not even gonna explain it.

You Google it later. I saw a credit union claiming that a primary residence is the ultimate wealth building tool. And I spit out. My tapioca, I wasn't consuming tapioca at the time. Dame just on the surface, what the ultimate wealth building tool, a primary

Damian Dunn: residence. Yeah, that seems wrong. I, it just seems right.

I don't know any way to kind of tiptoe around that. Yes. It's possible to absolutely build personal wealth through. [00:22:00] Real estate. However, I don't know, Pete, Kristen, maybe you can help me out with this. I, the idea of, of building wealth, what, what do you want to be able to do with that wealth after you've built it?

Peter Dunn: And that's, yeah, you're so smart, but this is, this is the angle we have to start with and then we can discredit the other part of it, but you have to start here. So David of course hits it in the Facebook comments right away. Kristen with the idea of generational wealth, which means. Oh, you got to die.

Kristen Ahlenius: Yeah. My very first thought was for whom, like it's a great wealth building tool, but who reaps the benefit of that?

Peter Dunn: Yeah, I feel like it's a, it's a great wealth hostage tool while you're living.

And, and, and [00:23:00] arguably, Oh my gosh, what am I doing? If you got an interest only mortgage. And then invested the difference between the cost of a full tilt mortgage, then you, you could say it's a wealth building tool, but in itself paying down principle while paying all of that interest and then hoping for the housing market to increase.

As a way to have equity in something that you're gonna have to borrow against doesn't feel ultimate to me.

Damian Dunn: I I may or may not have had a conversation fairly recently with someone who's looking at

Peter Dunn: congrats as a friend, everybody, not myself,

Damian Dunn: breaking news. Dame finds a friend who is looking at moving to a, a fairly hot real estate market west of the Mississippi's.

They're only planning, only planning on being there two years. And they are asking if it makes sense to buy a house [00:24:00] in that market Knowing that they could hold on to it and use it as a rental after the two years if they wanted to But their thought is you know what? I'll get the mortgage I can get some of that money back when we sell it as far as their, their payments and maybe get a

Peter Dunn: little bit of appreciation.

I love this situation.

Damian Dunn: I love, can we just, can we go here? Sure. If you want, I mean, do you want to, you want to try and put a bow on, on your question and then come back to it?

Peter Dunn: No, we

Damian Dunn: all systematically

Peter Dunn: disagree with the stupid assertion.

Damian Dunn: Your primary residence is the

Peter Dunn: primary.

Damian Dunn: Wait, wait, wait, there's an objection.

Kristen Ahlenius: There, there's not an objection. I just, I have a follow up question. Who is, who did the two of you believe is their target audience when a credit union puts out a statement like that of your home is the ultimate wealth building tool? Who are they trying to appeal to with that statement? Do you think

Peter Dunn: [00:25:00] first

Damian Dunn: time homebuyers?

Yeah, I think that's a good, I think that's a good good assumption. Or

Peter Dunn: fickle second or third time homebuyers. I, I, here's the other thing. It could have just been a ham handed marketing copywriter that thought it was neat and then just put it out there. And there's not a lot of strategy behind it.

Damian Dunn: Local credit union.

Do you know where, where this credit union was, was based? Like what, what area they, it was,

Peter Dunn: it was, yeah. And this sounds aggressively negative. It was the epitome of local, right? It was, it literally is just a local scene. Interesting. I needless to say, since this isn't like 2015, I didn't shame the person by retweeting it and telling them why they were wrong.

I mean, isn't that crazy? I mean, let's deviate from our deviation to the deviation here for a second. Nine years ago, this occurs, you're retweeting it and [00:26:00] just be like, you're wrong credit union. Maybe I've changed. Maybe the world's changed. I don't know. But like now, now we're just talking about it to my mom.

He puts them on blast and loses another potential customer. Yeah, well, yeah, exactly. Okay. With the deviation for the deviation of the deviation. So where are we back to James question? Yeah. Someone's moving to Austin, no, is it Austin? Can we get the city matter?

Damian Dunn: Idaho city matter.

Peter Dunn: I know

Damian Dunn: I city wasn't announced, but I, I think it's highly likely that that's the location.

Peter Dunn: Okay. Idaho two years hot market. Obviously real estate commissions will be like one and a half percent by then.

Damian Dunn: They'll pay, they'll pay us to buy out.

Peter Dunn: Interest rates are high

Damian Dunn: again.

Peter Dunn: Again, went up quarter percent. So it's not even like they could, if it's for five years, maybe they could refinance in two, but in two they'll be out.

So they're just eating a high [00:27:00] interest rate mortgage. Yeah, relatively high.

Damian Dunn: Yeah. And I mean, if they opt for 30 year mortgage, they're not going to have much of, of anything in, in principal payments or sorry, principal accumulation in those first two years. I mean, it's, it's, it's tough.

Kristen Ahlenius: Okay. Maybe this is too millennial of me.

Let me be the judge of that. It may be like young millennial of me, but I just have a really hard time. With making statements of like, if we don't know how long, like, if we're only going to be there for two years, to me, that feels like a different version of the advice that we often give, which is to not time the market.

And it feels like market timing from a housing perspective. And I personally feel like if you can objectively afford to buy a [00:28:00] house, I have a really hard time. Ever advocating against buying a home you can objectively afford.

Peter Dunn: Okay. So within that, okay. That's interesting because within that is you have an emergency fund, you know, your, your, your credits in a good place where you're not getting just killed on the rate.

This person, by the way,

Damian Dunn: can absolutely afford the house. That's not the issue.

Kristen Ahlenius: Why can't they buy a house? The

Damian Dunn: issue was more of the timing. If you know your exit is going to be two years from now, are you willing to take the gamble that the market could turn and you could have a house that's worth less than you paid for it two years ago?

Peter Dunn: I think I think the likelihood of interest rates falling within the next 24 months is great, which means the market of potential buyers grows significantly. And therefore I would do it.

Damian Dunn: Would you do it? Dame? [00:29:00] I don't know. I mean, it would depend on the house, honestly, if, if I knew I was going to have to go in who do a bunch of improvements, I might just rent and be happy about it. And if something breaks, call the landlord and say, fix it and move on. Kristen, what would you do? She'd buy

Kristen Ahlenius: it.

I would absolutely buy it.

Damian Dunn: She'd buy

Peter Dunn: it

Kristen Ahlenius: a hundred percent. I, I just don't get all that work up about market timing and housing.

Peter Dunn: I, again, I, I'm I'm thinking about. Your last few years Kristen. Yeah. Okay, and I'm thinking about when you bought a house and when you didn't. Mm hmm You don't you didn't always buy a house, but you have

Kristen Ahlenius: mm hmm.

Peter Dunn: And does that impact your decision here?

Kristen Ahlenius: I mean it has always worked out for me. So I've not been on the bad end of one of those transactions yet. So maybe I would feel differently if I got burnt

Peter Dunn: So we're going to go ahead and give this the official Kristen and company guaranteed good idea.[00:30:00]

I would do it. Kristen and I would do it. Dame doesn't know. He'd have to see how much constructed he'd have to do coming up after the break. More of this. If you want it, I'm Pete, the planner, that might be the new way to get to commercial. More of this. If you want it, I have a Slack sitting in my Slack.

Desktop right now that I sort of saw came as a preview. You know, if I think I opened it, I think I'd be done for the rest of the show. So I'm trying my best not to look at it. Close Slack. Well, if I close Slack, I might see it. I'm, I'm just stranded right now. As long as it doesn't

Damian Dunn: keep firing off, I'm okay.

Whoever's messaging Pete and the company, stop it.

Kristen Ahlenius: Ben.

Damian Dunn: Schedule it for 11 o'clock.

Peter Dunn: Yeah. Okay. What's this, what's this question about what?

Damian Dunn: Sequence, yeah, sequence of returns. Who's reading this? I will. Kristen, unless you want to, Kristen. I read plenty in the fourth, the fourth segment. [00:31:00]

Kristen Ahlenius: That's okay.

You got it. You're a great reader. Thanks.

Peter Dunn: In three, back on the Pete the Planner show, Dame, it has come to my attention by the host of the show, Kristen Alanius, that you have a question you're going to read and we are The host and I are going to answer it.

Damian Dunn: You should have made her do the intro to this segment.

That would have been better. Then toss it to me for the read. That would have been great. Okay. Dear Pete, Kristen and Dame, I'm nearing retirement sometime in the next two or three years, but I'm more anxious than excited, but I'm moving to Idaho. I still have a bad taste in my mouth about what happened at the start of the pandemic when stock prices dropped very rapidly and quite significantly.

I saw what that did to my retirement accounts and thankfully I didn't get out of the market. But now I can't help but think about what I'll be in for if something similar happens in the next five years. How do I weather something like that? Love the show, [00:32:00] Jonathan. How, how's Jonathan spelled? J O N A T H A N.

Peter Dunn: That's

Damian Dunn: a hard name for me to spell. Joe Nathan.

Peter Dunn: Oh, that's a good way to do it. Oh,


Kristen Ahlenius: I empathize. No, I, I totally, I empathize with this because it's hard to see your account balances When markets are volatile, right? We talk about just don't look at it, but I think all three of us, we do that anyway, when, when markets are volatile and I can't imagine, I know what it feels like as someone who is not near retirement, when there's a big dip in the market and I see the impact of that.

I cannot imagine yet the emotional weight of what that would feel like. If that number were four, five times what it is now.

Peter Dunn: Dave, did you hear how subtly [00:33:00] Kristen just called you and I old

Dame? I'm going to, I'm going to go with the advice that I've heard you say for years here. And I'm not saying you introduced me to this idea, but you definitely. I think this is a popular, one of your, your biggest takes here is you would have a separate pool of assets. That's job isn't necessarily to get a lot of yield from an income perspective, but simply to buy yourself time and use those funds to protect the need to withdraw.

When the market is down, I, I, you say it cleaner. Yeah, you're absolutely right.

Damian Dunn: Yeah, because you, what you can do is set up your investment so that you've got a pool of money and you can pick on how long you think that pool needs to last, but you live off of that money and your investments can go and do what investments do.

And you can adjust your spending during that time period. Try and make that money last as long [00:34:00] as possible and give your investments a chance to recover. There are varying opinions on whether or not this is the most appropriate way to approach it, but I've actually seen this be implemented and work quite, quite well.

So I'm very comfortable with it. That said, let's just talk about for just a minute, why What, what Jonathan is describing is a big deal. We all know that the stock market is going to return. We always figure for our projection purposes, Pete, we're comfortable with eight, right? Eight percent. Yep. And if we knew that we could get eight percent every year in a linear fashion, everybody signs up for that.

There's no heartburn. You know what to get. Your account values can consistently climb. Yep. Yep. Yep. Unfortunately, that is not reality. And so when we have a huge drop in market value, like we experienced at the beginning of the pandemic or any of the other years prior where similar results were earned, [00:35:00] that's okay.

If you're not pulling money out of your accounts, the challenge becomes when your account values drop significantly. And then on top of it, you take money out. You can absolutely destroy your longterm viability financially. If you're doing both of those at the same time, accounts are losing value and you're pulling money out to live on.

It happens and sometimes there's no other way around it, but that's why it helps to try and plan as best you can to avoid circumstances like that, where you're depleting accounts when they are losing value in the stock market.

Kristen Ahlenius: So in this situation, someone really has Two approaches in my my opinion.

It's one. You take a really conservative approach to the dollars that you'll need in the short term so that they're not part of that volatility and sequence of return. Risk is a lesser threat to those dollars. Or you say, I'm not [00:36:00] willing to sacrifice the potential of these returns, but I'm willing to sacrifice As a result of that, I'm willing to work through a down market and not retire when I originally wanted to, if it, Pete hates that.

Peter Dunn: I hate a little strong, I think it might be. You brought up in the last segment timing, timing, a market or timing, wouldn't you be timing an inflection point and tying your employment to it?

Kristen Ahlenius: I yes and no. I'm saying that if saying, okay, I'm going to retire at 67 is I understand there are different implications from like, okay, Medicare 65, what will your social security benefit, but ultimately that number is.

It's kind of arbitrary. It's because we don't know exactly what your account balances will be when you want to retire. And if you're someone who says, [00:37:00] I'm okay with, you know, let's say we have a prolonged period of downturn, which we still haven't seen for some time, right? The market rebounded really quickly during the pandemic.

And so if we have a prolonged period of down and you say, Look, if that means that I don't get to retire for another year, I'm okay with that. Is that the worst thing?

Peter Dunn: I think there's two other elements to this that, that go into what Kristen just said. Number one, what's the, what's the income expectation on the money is a person wanting 3 percent or are they trying to take out 6%?

Like, I think that's part of it. Which also ties into what are the other income sources of like how heavy, heavily dependent are they on their investment income for their total retirement?

Damian Dunn: Yeah. I mean, if you are somebody who is retiring at 65 when full retirement is 67 and you're hoping to use your assets to bridge the gap so you can get full retirement age [00:38:00] benefits from social security timing like this could be really, really bad for you.

Yeah. The other thing that I didn't mention and nobody else has brought up and I, I kind of feel like we have to be honest about this and annuity might play a role in trying to create a base level of income for someone like this as well. Now, I'm not saying you put every penny you've got into it, but between other sources of income, such as social security, and if there's any other pension, something like that, if you feel like you can carve out some of your retirement assets and put it into an annuity to give you a, a steady income.

income in your account every single month. That may not be the worst idea in the world either, especially if you're somebody who's really struggles with anxiety about the stock market and doesn't like to see the account value fluctuate very much.

Peter Dunn: Chris, what do you think about that? And annuity essentially is you're buying insurance.

It's an insurance product. You're, you're asking a company to ensure your retirement income. And I'm sort of [00:39:00] butchering the idea that is the spirit of the idea, but that's not technically how it works.

Kristen Ahlenius: I In a case like this specifically, this person's so close to retirement and that need is so short term, I don't know if that would be the fit that I would go to.

To, to me it feels a little more complicated than the, what is the problem we're trying to solve and can we just solve that problem by moving some funds to cash? I think the answer to that is yes, and it's a much simpler and cheaper solution. I don't, Dislike the idea. It's just not where I would go first.

Peter Dunn: Do you feel like when people try to do retirement pre retirement calculations and they, they depend on a certain amount of income from their portfolio, they thread the needle just a little too close and they, and they race to the finish line and we're going to make it work. And then they don't have the wiggle room for things like sequence of return risks is, is that reality?

And is it also just the way it has to be because [00:40:00] retiring is one of the hardest things you're ever going to do?

Damian Dunn: Yeah, well, nobody really knows what their expenses are going to be in retirement unless they've practiced it ahead of time. I think a really interesting study would be to see how much variance there is in the expenses that people actually have in the first couple of years of retirement versus what they projected they were going to have and see what the delta is there.

Oh, I would read that study.

Peter Dunn: See, I can be a nerd. Okay, let's do this. Come up to us after the break. Look, we're going to take a break and we'll come back and biggest waste of money of the week and words right here on the pizza planner show. I don't, I don't even know. And I wasn't distracted by my email or Slack.

I just stopped wording. Okay. Another slack came in. Andy says I just spoke in tongues. I feel like I want to ask the crew here if anyone has ever heard anyone speak in tongues, but I don't really think we want to go down that road. So let's just move on. [00:41:00] I have. It's, it's something. It's, let's move on.

Damien, you got your news items pulled up there? Yes. Of course.

The show's going pretty fast and I feel like there's not a lot of yapping. It's very quiet.

Kristen Ahlenius: Weird.

Peter Dunn: Kristen, what do you want to go on and on about? Anything? Taylor? What do you want to go on and on about? Joking! Kidding!

Damian Dunn: Kidding. Did I see that Taylor's publicist's first name is Tree? Pardon me?

Kristen Ahlenius: I'm not that big of a, apparently I'm not that big of a Swiftie because I

Damian Dunn: don't know.

I saw it somewhere that I think her publicist, there's somebody listening in the comments that may have seen the same article. I think her first name is tree.

Peter Dunn: You got to imagine that Swift Taylor's nervous that that person would leave. Well done. [00:42:00] Welcome to Indianapolis. Caitlin Clark. Thanks for listening.

Damian Dunn: Here's the name. You're going to like it. Tree pain. Tree, T R E E, Payne, P A I N E, Tree Payne. What's Tree's government? I love that album.

Peter Dunn: Is that T. Payne's, like, government name? Taylor Swift, Tree Payne. That's T. Payne. I,

Damian Dunn: there's,

Peter Dunn: yeah, I don't know. Okay, here we go. Boy, Jeremiah, we're not even, we're not even doing that.

We're not, we're not involving ourselves at all. Dame, did you see that? Oh yeah, you clearly saw that. Kristen, did you, oh, did you just see what happened?

Damian Dunn: That's the, it's the new Caitlyn Clark mod on on streamer or whatever this is. So

Peter Dunn: streamer like if you do the heart symbol thing? Not [00:43:00] you. No love for Pete.

No love for Pete. I have mine. Pete turned

Damian Dunn: off. Oh, I didn't know it was a thing, Dave. Did you know what did that No, I didn't. Well, I, I'd seen it, but I, I'd thought I'd disabled it. Apparently I didn't. That was incredible.

Peter Dunn: Kristen, did you see the. Caitlin and Clark press conference thing.

Kristen Ahlenius: Yes, I did.

Peter Dunn: Okay. We got to talk about it.


Kristen Ahlenius: no,

Peter Dunn: that was awful.

Damian Dunn: That was awful. I, I don't normally I would say, okay, what's the context, but I don't think that helps in this

Peter Dunn: situation. I want to say If, if I am the most likely person on this show to put themselves in that dumb scenario, like I'm the most likely person here to do something that stupid.

Okay. And I have at various times in my life publicly [00:44:00] done stupid things. Be all in an attempt to be funny. And this all started back in elementary and middle school. And my dad would tell me time and time again, you're going to get in trouble by trying to be funny and you won't be able to get out of it.

And he was right. But man, I don't, I can't imagine I'd ever be that tone deaf. For those that don't know, not

Kristen Ahlenius: talking about it at all. Well, you

Peter Dunn: started yapping and we had to,

Kristen Ahlenius: as one does.

Peter Dunn: So during Caitlin Clarke's news conference, welcoming her to the Indiana fever, which we're welcome to town, Caitlin, we're glad to serve you and all of your other coworkers at pastry sports entertainment.

I, Realized and the rest of the world did too because we have ears and eyes that a local reporter Just had an exchange with her that was about as creepy and as weird as it possibly [00:45:00] gets and it made International news and it was weird

Damian Dunn: Do you want to reenact it, Pete? I'll be Kalen.

Peter Dunn: Sure, Dave. Kalen, when you you would give the heart sign and send it out to your family after your games.

Yeah, it's something that I do after

Damian Dunn: every game to my family. Well, now you're going to have to do it to me. It's that's close. That's close. Is there something like, I'll get along a lot better. We'll get along great. If you do it to me too, or something.

Peter Dunn: Yeah. Yeah. We'll get along a lot better here. If you send the heart hand signal to, it was so weird.

Kristen Ahlenius: That was the equivalent of like when corporate women get told to smile more right there. Did you get that slack from this morning, I say? Be sure you smile on the air.

Damian Dunn: I I, trust me, there's video out there. I mean, you can find it. It's not, not hard to find. And it's way more creepy than we just reenacted.

I don't want to be overly [00:46:00] dramatic for the first time today.

Peter Dunn: I shuddered, like I physically shook, like I got a, like the goosebumps when I watched it for the first time. It's so uncomfortable.

Damian Dunn: Yeah, it's not how you want to welcome somebody. Potentially the biggest name in the WNBA, I will say

Peter Dunn: this as a, as an opinion columnist, which which I, which I am in a, in a business or personal finance sense, there is a propensity in that position to pull yourself into.

A story like it, it is a, it is a thing, but it is a runaway train. If you do not control it, because then it becomes, everything is about you. And from afar, that's what looks like it happened. Like this is this person's crowning achievement in their career. One of the most remarkable sports stories of all time.

And it's about him. And then that's what, [00:47:00] that's what happens, man. You start buying your own BS. That's what

Damian Dunn: happens. I think I think we can all be glad that that happened publicly. So there's less of a chance something like that happens privately, repeatedly with so. Preach! I mean, a little bit of embarrassment may save a lot of a lot of uncomfortableness and pain.

Other things. That was like a Taylor Swift

Peter Dunn: lyric. Well, man, Dave, that was great.

Kristen Ahlenius: A lullaby disguised as a dagger.

Peter Dunn: Whatever. It's fabulous. I don't know. Dave's having a good year on the show. Yeah. What about the other? What about the other years? Not so much. Not so much. What? Three, two, one. This week's biggest waste of money of the week right here on the Pete the Planner show Everyone calm down.

I'm trying to find it. Here it is. Wait. No, it isn't. Yes, it is. It's here, everyone. It's the Babilat by [00:48:00] Lamborghini BL001 paddle racket with a huge following in Spain and spreading popularity across Europe. Paddle tennis is ripe for technological development. Time out. Granted paddle tennis. Is kind of like pickleball is that Just the european name for pickleball like football and soccer.

I think they're different but they're they're similar ish

Damian Dunn: Okay,

Peter Dunn: Maybe google it and whatnot as i'm finishing this story while still listening and then

Damian Dunn: i'll do your work. Sure

Peter Dunn: Played on a court with walls. Wait a second. I'm doing the world Played on a court with walls and a solid ball As a cross between racquetball and tennis, paddle tennis is experiencing a surge of popularity, leading to a collaboration with racquetmaker Babalat and Lamborghini.

The BL 001 will be made in Lamborghini's facilities. Crafted in carbon fiber [00:49:00] and coming in five exclusive Lamborghini colors, which I'm not going to pronounce because no one needs that. The racket is built around a carbon fiber monocue frame with a striking face optimized for proper. Deformation. A face optimized for proper deformation.

Wow. The BL001 is limited to just 50 units with two further models, the 002 and 003 entering production at a later date. Dame, anything else to add about paddle tennis?

Damian Dunn: Jeremiah, do you want to help? Pete pronounced phonetically mono cue. If you want to type that in the the chat, that'd be fantastic.

Paddle tennis. No, it does look a lot like some hybrid between a pickleball and tennis, but like I said, there, there are potentially walls involved too. I mean, it's, it's crap. There's more research needs to be

Peter Dunn: done. Well, the queen of pickleball in our organization is none other than [00:50:00] Kristen Alenius.

Kristen. How much does the Babalette. By Lamborghini BL001 paddle racket cost.

Kristen Ahlenius: You know, I think you were being facetious, but I, I'm playing pickleball this weekend.

Peter Dunn: Well, yeah, I wasn't being facetious. I've snuck into your email and I know.

Kristen Ahlenius: Yeah, because

Peter Dunn: I emailed and made plans with my friends. Stop it. No, this is ageism.

Dame and I have been talking about this off the air. You are making us feel old. Okay,

Kristen Ahlenius: all right.

Peter Dunn: How much?

Kristen Ahlenius: 2, 000. It's made in the Lamborghini facility.

Damian Dunn: With carbon fiber. Okay, great, Dan. That said, I think she's high. I think it's closer to 1,

Peter Dunn: 200. 5, 300. 5, 300. The Pickle Queen of Northern Indiana. Wait, the pickleball queen.

Thank you. Pickle queen. Yeah.

Damian Dunn: I don't Dane, what's in the news? [00:51:00] State houses across the country are enacting laws to curtail private equity healthcare acquisitions, part of a political backlash against corporate consolidation in the medical sector. More than a dozen states have passed laws to require corporate buyers, such as private equity firms, to notify states of planned healthcare acquisitions.

In some cases, These laws let state authorities block deals if they consider them against the public interest. Most of these bills have been passed in Democratic controlled states, but last month, Indiana, where Republicans hold legislative majorities in the governor's and the governor's office, became the first red state to enact a private equity healthcare merger review law.

New York, California, Massachusetts, Colorado, and Illinois. are among the states that have similar statutes on the books.

Peter Dunn: That's interesting that usually, again, you see these in a certain color of state, if you will, but that sort of jumped across the aisle into Indiana is fascinating. Yeah.

Damian Dunn: What do you think it means?

Is that we were [00:52:00] the Indiana enacted it or that we're the first red state to do it. I would assume that there will be many more in the near future if, if Indiana is leading the charge on this for the red states, but I'm, I, I don't, I don't hate it.

Peter Dunn: Yeah, because when competition goes away and prices go up and like we all suffer for something like that.

You're seeing health care where there's a lot of scrutiny around costs. Yes. What else is the news?

Damian Dunn: Western boots have a new protector in Beyonce, the cowboy fashion. I'm sorry. The country fashion staples surged. More than a price, but you know what? Wow, Kristen

Peter Dunn: The pickle Queen of Northern, Indiana

Kristen Ahlenius: How

Peter Dunn: come

Damian Dunn: neither of Damon I can speak this week when you come back and I reset my timer So I have no idea how much time we've got left in the [00:53:00] segment now So it's just working out swimmingly sure shall we try again kids

Kristen Ahlenius: about four minutes.

You can do this.

Peter Dunn: Yeah, so wait Beyonce Saying about boots and now the boots are hot

Damian Dunn: Yeah they've gone up. Sales have gone up 20 percent in the week after she released her cowboy carter album According to consumer behavior firm circana that could spell good news for companies making the iconic shoe As well as other items that fit the same wild west aesthetic

Peter Dunn: kristin.

How many pairs? How many pairs of cowboy boots do you own?

Kristen Ahlenius: Two.

Peter Dunn: How many do you wear regularly?

Kristen Ahlenius: I don't actually wear them that

Peter Dunn: regularly. Can a man wear cowboy boots with shorts?

Kristen Ahlenius: I know men who do. Should they? I don't know. Is

Peter Dunn: it a fashion statement or more practical for them?

Kristen Ahlenius: It's practical. Just like you got to slip on that pair of boots.

It's dirty and gross and get whatever chore done that needs [00:54:00] done.

Peter Dunn: Dame, how many pairs of cowboy boots do you own? Zero, but I do own muck boots. Okay, I own muck boots. Yeah. I mean, they're, they're sort of They're rain boots. Mine are wellies. They're, they're a, like a hunter. How many cowboy hats do you own, Kristen?

Kristen Ahlenius: Zero. I have a big head.

Peter Dunn: I don't know what to say next. Dame, how many cowboy hats? One. Really? Yeah. I, I I got neither of those things, but I will tell you when I went to the national rodeo finals in Las Vegas a few years ago and I was in the cowboy store or whatever it's called, I really wanted to get a hat and, and boots cause it felt really cool.

But I ultimately, as I was trying these things on and looking back at myself in a mirror, I looked utterly nope. Ridiculous. I will actually send you two photos of me trying on hats in Vegas. Yeah, I look dumber than normal. And so I don't own

Damian Dunn: either day. What else is the news? A long, vacant 44 story office tower in St.

Louis sold last week for 3. [00:55:00] 6 million, a 98 percent plunge from when it changed hands for 205 million in 2006. The cratering value of the former one AT& T center is the latest example of how commercial real estate in the Midwest has been ravaged by remote work. Six of the 10 Office districts in the U. S.

Had the biggest decline in foot traffic from the 20 from 2019 to the middle of 2023 are in the Midwest. According to a University of Toronto study, ST Louis had the steepest drop of all

Peter Dunn: Kristen. How's my Cushman Wakefield stock pick looking?

Was that 2022? Well, it was not last year. I think it was a year before

Kristen Ahlenius: the year before

Peter Dunn: how I think I picked it. Oh, you know what? I think it was at 21. I'm looking this up. It was at 21 when I was like, you know what? Cushman Wakefield is going to be, it's going to come back. And Dame, the answer to how that's doing [00:56:00] is.

It's at 9. 39 two years later. Oh, man, that's terrible. Dane, what do you,

Damian Dunn: this seems like a bad thing. Yeah, because they go on in this article and talk about the possibility that these, these city centers turn into a doom loop, which is people flee when conditions worsen, then conditions worsen because there's nobody there to support with tax revenue and then more people leave.

Think Gary, Indiana.

Peter Dunn: I thought a doom loop is when I'm sad cause I eat and I eat cause I'm sad. That's a personal doom loop. Okay. Sorry. Not the commercial real estate. Micro doom loop. Micro not macro. Micro doom loop. It's a, it's the, that's what the Dunman do. Yes, Oh, I forgot, by the way, a coworker this week, who's been working here since October came up to me and I was like, Hey, so is it a joke?

Are you like actually related? And I was like, no, we are [00:57:00] not related. But he thought it was like this long

Damian Dunn: prank. I pull on people, which would be cool. I just had a participant called and then the last thing we discussed was, so are you actually related to Pete? No, speaking of sending good vibes

Peter Dunn: because good vibes are always to the budget.

I'm Pete the planner This is the Pete the planner show. You guys want to make a fun announcement here right on the program

Damian Dunn: That means let me translate that for everybody else everybody do we want Pete to make an announcement that we probably don't have any idea about what he's about to say? Yes.

Yes. I think we do.

Peter Dunn: Well, I mean, you, you know, the news, you just 1000 percent know the news. I assume. I mean, have you, have you been to our Wednesday standup meetings in the last month? I just

Damian Dunn: did a piece in this Wednesdays.

Kristen Ahlenius: You actually missed. Yeah.

Damian Dunn: Oh, sorry.

Kristen Ahlenius: David did a really good job at saying up this last week to sequence of return risks.

Damian Dunn: It was a little bit different, but [00:58:00] it was, it was good. Oz said she was highly educated by the AP. So just, just saying,

Peter Dunn: We're moving where our offices are moving. And so here in about. Oh, I don't even know how to predict this. Like three months, I would say is probably the best way to say this, we're going to have a completely new studio and it will look very different.

We are not bringing the wood to that studio.

Damian Dunn: I I I've heard rumors that there's the potential that we get all three be in the same room to do a live recording someday. I actually have not heard that. Dame is breaking news. I haven't heard that. I was just speaking it out of the ether. I just wait. Did you, is that real?

No, I was just saying that.

Peter Dunn: Okay. Geez. I was like, okay, well, maybe someone wants me to sign off on anything. Set is going to look pretty different. I think I'm going to go with like like like a mom influencer sort of aesthetic. So [00:59:00] Eric says, Oh boy, I am so late. Hello from Seattle. And it's like, well, yeah, you're three hours behind.

Kristen Ahlenius: Shows over here.

Peter Dunn: Yeah. We're we're leaving. All right. Any, any big plans other than pickleball this weekend? Kids.

Boy. Okay. Hey everybody stay getting money.