November 3, 2023

Considering unorthodox financial products

In this week’s episode, Kristen, Dame, and Pete discuss whether or not they’d purchase an All-in-one mortgage or universal life insurance.

Episode Transcript

Peter Dunn: Yeah. So the show started. Happy November. There it is. Hi, Kristen. Hello, Dame.

How are you guys? Tired.

Damian Dunn: Much better than I was earlier this week.

Peter Dunn: Yeah. Fascinating week here at your Moneyline. First off, I talked to Dame on Wednesday morning and we had a little scheduled one on one. He pops up on the zoom and I, and I said to him, Dame, it's never fun when someone who cares about you says.

The following, but I'm gonna say it. You look terrible. He was, he looked terrible, sounded terrible. It was the worst. And I was like, Oh, well, Dame's dead. Uh, so we're going to need a new cohost for the show. But Dame,

Damian Dunn: you've recovered. I made a strong comeback

Peter Dunn: and here I am. Did you tie one on, on Halloween?

Like what happened?

Damian Dunn: No, I, the day before I thought I was having a really bad, uh, allergy attack. [00:01:00] And which doesn't happen to me very often anymore. And then woke up the next day and I just, it was horrible. Absolutely horrible.

Peter Dunn: And Kristen with a little biz travel this week with the ladies of your money line up in Chicago.

I heard you guys shut down a bar. Is that true?

Kristen Ahlenius: We did look around and realize that we were like the last people in a restaurant. It was, um, we, we were totally like in our own world. And I don't remember which of the three looked up and was like, you guys were. We're the only ones here and we're all very loud and dynamic personalities.

So then it got really quiet and we looked around. It was like, we should probably go home. Yeah. What time was it? It was like 10 o'clock.

Peter Dunn: I think that's burning the midnight oil. Very exciting things. Of course, it was Halloween extortion night in America where. I think we've talked about this in the last couple of years.

Kids don't a ring a doorbell or knock on the door anymore and they don't say trick or treat. They just hold out their [00:02:00] back with this very Gen Z expectation of something. What is that?

Damian Dunn: Uh, last time I handed out candy in, uh, one of our friends neighborhoods, since we don't actually live in a neighborhood, uh, I.

Regularly made kids perform some, uh, just something to get candy, answer questions like trivia, uh, you know, sing something. I, I, I wasn't handing it out. You got to put some effort into this. This creepy guy with

Peter Dunn: a flashlight made me take off my shirt. He did what, Timmy? You said it was like perform like piece of strength or what?

I just told you. I don't know. It sounded creepy. I would have

Kristen Ahlenius: walked away as a child if I would have walked up and someone would have been like, Do, like, do something cool. Tell me a joke. I would have just been like, no, thank

Damian Dunn: you. I had, I had like a list of trivia questions for like Halloween related stuff.

And I would make [00:03:00] people guess essentially. Everybody got candy eventually, my goodness. But come on, we're going to make this entertaining.

Peter Dunn: Uh, Dame, uh, you had a birthday since we last spoke or we covered that last week.

Damian Dunn: Birthday was the week prior, because it's the week before

Peter Dunn: Halloween. Did I sleep this week?

Okay. We've got a show. It's a radio show. Here's what happens on the show. Two segments. We're going to start the show. Number one's going to be Kristen. What's it called? The all in one mortgage mortgage. Yeah, I don't know what this is. So I'm about to learn something that the people are talking about. The second thing we're talking about universal life.

Yes. I, I know a lot about that. We can talk about that. Uh, and the third segment, we have an email, uh, from a woman who, it's a fascinating day. I think you and I are going to probably align on that one because I, I read it and was fascinated by it and by all accounts you were too. So I think I'm probably going to be on the same page there.

Uh, and then Kristen will be the young dissenter [00:04:00] as they call her.

Kristen Ahlenius: I haven't read that email, so hopefully I have a good opinion.

Damian Dunn: Is that a rap name? The young dissenter? Yeah. Young

Peter Dunn: dissenter. Young dissenter. Dave, did you just hear what happened? She said, I haven't read that email. It have, I rubbed off on her so much that now she's coming to the show unprepared.

Kristen Ahlenius: I started it and then I forgot, I didn't mark it as unread, you know, and it ceased to exist in my brain after that.

Peter Dunn: I like the idea that Dame forces children to perform for him before he gives them a treat. This is big white van energy.

Damian Dunn: We, well, this is a golf cart friendly neighborhood and we really wanted to make up the golf cart as a white van with free candy on the side of it and drive around, but didn't get around to it

Peter Dunn: this year.

Do you guys shut off your slack during the show? Yes.

Damian Dunn: Well, I... It's it's on, but I pause it.

Peter Dunn: Yes. I just got, there's the, I'm part of a conversation now that's just firing and I'm reading it and I shouldn't. Thanks for being present with us. [00:05:00] What's that? Okay, let's, who's got a device by their mic? What is that?

Whose phone is by their mic cord? Mine's

Kristen Ahlenius: always by my mic though. It's not any...

Peter Dunn: Alright, we good?

Was it you, Dave? It might have

Damian Dunn: been. But it was like on top of three different notebooks. I didn't think it, I thought it was insulated. So, whatever.

Peter Dunn: Oh my. Um, gosh, this slack thread. I just want to read it. Maybe as I do the intro to the show, I'll just... Stop it. I'm sorry, I... You decided. By the way, Jameson's on the, in the live stream right now.

Um, I saw a picture of someone, his family dressed up as a clown for Halloween. It was just absolutely terrifying. I don't know what they're doing down there in Texas, but it was awful. I [00:06:00] mean, it was great, but I'm like, I'm not into that. So it was terrifying.

Damian Dunn: You know, that is the exception. I didn't make any clowns perform because I hate clowns.

I just threw candy down the street and they had to go get it.

Peter Dunn: Dave. There's something like, I don't know if it's the phrasing of I made kids perform. I don't know what it is, but it just seems wrong.

Damian Dunn: I'll I'll make sure that's the message in my slack for the rest of the day for just for you after we're finished.


Peter Dunn: just feels wrong. And three, two, one this week on the Pete, the planner show. We answer your money questions. Here's how the show works. You email us, ask Pete at pizza planner. com. That's ask Pete a pizza planner. com. And we will not make you perform for us, but what we will do is we will answer your questions and.

You will like it. And you will like it. Joining me as always, Kristen Alanius. Hello. Hello. And my, my son, Damian Dunn. Hello, Dam. That's not how this works. Okay. Uh, all right. So this week's [00:07:00] show, what are we calling the first two segments? They're like grouped into, are we, should you really do that? Is it, what are we calling them?


Kristen Ahlenius: that's not a bad idea. The products that aren't always the best fit was

Peter Dunn: not a fit for everyone. So these are, these are financial products that are talked about. As, uh, all in one solutions often that, uh, and so we're gonna talk about those third segment. We have a really interesting email from, I believe a 72 year old widow.

It's got 2 million in the stock market. She wants to take the money out of the stock market and her financial advisor is saying, whoa, whoa, whoa, stop the car. And, um, we'll explain what that means later. I don't know. I've got a weird energy today. Have you guys sensed it yet? Yes. I don't know what it is.

Kristen. Pete. I had never prior to about two, three weeks ago heard the phrase all in one mortgage. [00:08:00] No. Was that what it's called? Yes. What is it?

Kristen Ahlenius: I, to be honest with you, Pete, this is one of those products that I am struggling even to wrap my head around. So on the surface level, the idea is it's this mortgage that you pay less interest on Even though the interest rate is higher and you have to be a really qualified buyer and the, I, the entire premise is that it combines, I'll get there.

The entire premise is that it combines your savings with your mortgage and all in one product.

Peter Dunn: I'm so confused. Okay. So how,

Damian Dunn: that was a perfect explanation. That's literally the

Kristen Ahlenius: explanation.

Peter Dunn: Can you explain her explanation please?

Damian Dunn: No, no, because it turns out there's a mortgage. There's a first position. He lock attached to it.

Uh, this only works for people who [00:09:00] have cashflow, regular positive cashflow regularly,

Peter Dunn: but insignificant cashflow. We're not talking like, yeah. Yeah. Okay. So

Damian Dunn: lots of margin. Yep. So if, if you, um, deposit, let's say you save a thousand bucks every month that goes into that savings account, that is going to decrease the balance, the principal balance of the mortgage for interest rate calculation purposes.

If you need that money though, you can go in and get it, but it adjusts the numbers on the backside. Plus, since there's a HELOC attached to it, you can go in and take more money out if you need. It is a convoluted, crazy product that if, unless you are incredibly disciplined, saver have great cash flow, this is going to, you're not, first, you're not going to qualify for it.

And second, it's going to fail miserably and you're going to blow this thing up and end up paying way, way more than you would have just on a straight 1530, whatever your mortgage traditional. Going out the

Peter Dunn: [00:10:00] door. I feel like the old keep it simple stupid kiss rule. It's a good one for mortgages Team it's funny your explanation there.

I was tracking I was tracking and then out of nowhere. I completely lost what you were saying

Damian Dunn: Yeah, that's how I've watched. I don't want to even guess how many minutes of videos and pieces I've read On this and I, until I see literally a flow chart of how this were back and forth and the balances of all these accounts at the same time, I'm probably not going to wrap my head around it.

And it makes me wonder if that's kind of by design that people just get sold this idea and this concept. Somebody makes a big old lot of money. And somebody kind of makes progress on their mortgage. All right.

Kristen Ahlenius: Yes.

Peter Dunn: Oh, there's more. There's more.

Kristen Ahlenius: Oh, wait, there's more. I discovered in my research that they're often adjustable rates.

Damian Dunn: Oh, yeah.

Peter Dunn: No, I forgot that part. [00:11:00] Okay. So there, for what I understand so far, which is close to nothing, it's an, it's a mortgage, there's a savings component. The rates are naturally higher than normal mortgages. And now you're saying those even adjust.

Kristen Ahlenius: Yes, that they're variable. Yeah.

Peter Dunn: Okay. So I'm reading on investopedia.

com, which is basically pretty reasonable source. Okay. What are the disadvantages of an all in one mortgage? There are a few drawbacks to an all in one mortgage. First, they often come with higher interest rates than traditional mortgages. Check. We've got that. Damn, I feel like we're almost all the way there at this point.

Second, although they make funds easily accessible, you need to be careful to not draw too much or your loan balance will begin to grow. Instead of shrink. And I think we got that too. Did we get that?

Damian Dunn: Which is exactly what you want your mortgage to do.

Peter Dunn: Yeah. And finally, you might need good or [00:12:00] excellent credit and a sizable down payment to qualify for this kind of loan.

I don't see that as a disadvantage. And that's probably a good thing. Like if you're, if you're listening right now and you're like, I live my financial life on the margins. Like I'm, I'm struggling just stop. Like I would turn the channel, try to find some Bob Seger or something like, don't listen to this.

Cause the same for you. This is for someone who has got, I don't, there's stuff to get, but this is where it gets crazy. Dame what you get like personal finance nerds with great credit scores and a lot of cash position, try to do this stuff. And then they end up hurting themselves.

Damian Dunn: Yeah, there's, um, you know, YouTube and all the different socials, if you stumble into this rabbit hole, you will get fed this, and why it's the greatest thing since sliced bread, and in theory, it might work, but there's so many ways it could go wrong, that even if you are somebody that it could work out for, [00:13:00] you'd have to prove to me how this would beat, significantly beat, Just making extra principal payments every month.

I'd have to see the math.

Peter Dunn: I feel real dumb saying, Hey, if I don't understand it, I can't recommend it. But isn't that actual prudence?

Kristen Ahlenius: I absolutely think so. And when I was reading about arguments in favor of the product, one of the arguments, like, I feel like it's such a stretch, and it says that the product reduces the amount of interest assessed on the loan, which will almost always be at a higher interest rate than what traditional demand deposits can offer.

And I'm like, but that's the whole point of having cash flow available is that the liquidity you have to take not taking that risk means there might not be that potential reward. Like, isn't that the premise of just like cash savings is like it's safe and available.

Peter Dunn: Okay, here's what [00:14:00] I'm willing to do.

Do you guys think we want to find someone that sells these things and have them come on the show with it and they have to understand the honest expectation that we are not fans because we don't understand it and it may not go well for them because we are hardheaded. And then have them like pitch us, would you want to do that?

Or is that weird?

Damian Dunn: I, I might be down for it. I, do you want to give that person a platform though?

Peter Dunn: If, uh, no, I do. I, I do because I think it's honest discourse because here's the thing. The next thing we're going to talk about on the show is universal life insurance, which I absolutely understand. And I think sometimes is appropriate and sometimes isn't.

I'm struggling to really understand all in one mortgages. Dave, do you remember years ago?

Damian Dunn: I thought you, I was hoping you would go here.

Peter Dunn: You and I didn't understand the true nuance of a reverse mortgage. So you and I sought out a person to try to sell us on it. And we met, you remember it was the [00:15:00] Starbucks over in Nora, you and me, this gent, and I'm thinking made a little bit of progress toward us, but I think you and I still left there going, I don't, I don't think so.

Right. Yeah. I mean,

Damian Dunn: again, every product has its place, but when you start really pushing it and trying to just shoehorn it everywhere, uh, that's, that's when it gets yucky. And he kept calling us and emailing us trying to get, get us to pitch it.

Peter Dunn: I do like the term yucky. Various people are saying there's a bank called North point bank and that's North point with an E at the end.

So I mean, how can they handle my mortgage? I can't even spell point. Uh, here's what we're going to do. We're going to take a break. We're going to calm down. Dame's going to make some, some candy decisions. And, uh, right after that universal life, what is it? Should you have it that's next on Pete, the planner.

I was going to say Dame's going to make some kids perform form for candy, but given that [00:16:00] the audience of the radio show wasn't let in, I did not want Dame's house to get swatted. Appreciate that. Thanks.

Kristen Ahlenius: You do that to the radio show sometimes though, give them closes with no content. But that

Peter Dunn: one felt dangerous, I didn't want to do it, like I, I, deep in my heart.


Damian Dunn: Damon ends up on a list, let's try and make that not happen.

Peter Dunn: Uh, okay, so Kit, do you guys want to do that, do you want to have one of these folks on so they can, I want to be honest about it, like I don't want to be like, hey, we're going to sneak attack ya. I am going to ambush you. I don't want to do that.

I want to understand it, but I want to be able to be skeptical. At the same time. I'm I, I'm game for it. Kristen, are you comfortable with that level of confrontation?

Kristen Ahlenius: Um, I'm not a confrontational gal, but I'll, I would do it.

Damian Dunn: Do we have somebody on for a universal life too?

Peter Dunn: I, well, I could, yeah. But I understand that you don't

Damian Dunn: wanna beat, well, c you'd be the [00:17:00] per perfect foil for that.

You could ask all the tough questions to make 'em squirm.

Peter Dunn: That'd be an interesting show, right? Have people on. Yeah. Oh yeah. I mean, if that's the case, we gotta do the reverse mortgage thing again. Okay, you got nine minutes. Make your case. You, you and I, my man Dame. This, um, winter. I don't know what, what's February of 23?

Is that a winter? Yes. Or is April, may. No one knows Dame. Do you remember? You and I actually found a pur a possible good purpose for a reverse mortgage in a particular situation you and I were working on. Mm-Hmm. . So they work sometimes. It's not as much as they're,

Damian Dunn: like I said, it's, it's, there are situations where I think it makes a lot of sense, but they're not just to be deployed all willy nilly.

Peter Dunn: Jeremiah says, let's hear people try to sell variable rate [00:18:00] mortgages. You know what? I'll tell you right now. I'm a variable rate mortgage is not a terrible thing right now. Right now,

go on. It isn't what interest rates are. What? 8%. Okay. Um, you don't think they're going to go. You think they're going to go up in the next three years? What if they do? Well, then I'm saying there's more of a chance they go down than that is that go up. And when they were at 3 percent and you tried to get a 2.

5 percent adjustable rate mortgage, that's foolish because there was nowhere to go but up.

Damian Dunn: I think there's still a bumper to go. Yeah. Uh, not in immediate future, but I still think there's a one or two bumps from the Fed.

Peter Dunn: Really? Oh, Jeremiah, who knows? Close to some things, 9.5% next year he says, Rick Wink says it is going up to 18%, and Danza says we need to have a timeshares sales [00:19:00] person on the show.

Kristen Ahlenius: how's Pete stock PIC doing? That's a really good question. You know what?

Peter Dunn: Don't, don't, Jameson. No one wants to hear from you. Uh, why not just get fixed rate and refinance if they go down? That's

Kristen Ahlenius: a good question. Oh, the argument. just refinance. Just buy the house anyway. You'll

Damian Dunn: just refinance. There may be a news story

Peter Dunn: about that.

Oh, don't ruin it. Okay. Um, let's do, what is this, Universal Life. Kristen, uh, is everything set up here? Can we set you up? What? Dame, how about you? Me? I, what, what, what What, what, Maybe sometimes three, two back on the Pete, the planner show. The first two segments of this week's show are called, should you buy that?

I think, I think Kristen, is that what we're calling segments? That's exactly what we're calling them. The first one was an all in [00:20:00] one mortgage. It's something that prior to two weeks ago, I'd never heard of. Uh, it was just explained to me by two of the world's foremost experts on money. And I still don't understand it.

So congrats you two. You you're the, the shine. The bloom is off the rose. The shine is off the forehead. Way to go.

Now we're going to talk about another, uh, I don't want to say controversial cause I feel like that loads the idea here, but, uh, another financial product that you hear about that is often prescribed to many. And our argument might be it's, it's not a, it's not a fix all it is more of a nuanced product and that is a universal life insurance.

Kristen, can you give us a basic explanation?

Kristen Ahlenius: I can certainly try. So universal life is permanent life insurance. You make a monthly premium to that on that insurance policy. And [00:21:00] then you also, in addition to the life insurance. have an account that grows that acts similar, I guess you would say, to like a brokerage account.

You have an investment account tied to that product. One of the arguments for it is that you can adjust your premiums. Um, I don't, if the investments underperform, that can be a catch to it, but essentially it's life insurance with an investment account as well.

Peter Dunn: I think that, yes, I think that's a great explanation.

I think there's a couple of pieces of nuance that I would like to point out. Number one, um, in normal universal life insurance, it's often an index, which that sub account goes to. Uh, and that's important for my next point. After this next point, uh, and then some universal life, which is called variable universal life.

That sub account is you can choose investment options. And here's why I think that nuance is important because you don't have to be [00:22:00] securities licensed to sell universal life insurance. You do have to hold securities licenses to sell variable universal life insurance. And Dame, honestly, I'm trying not to be petty.

But I'm the King Richard Petty. I think that's the biggest challenge here. Uh, I, I struggle if you're buying universal life from someone who is not securities licensed. Can I be Tom Petty? Yes! As long as I'm Richard Petty and you're Tom Petty, let's go! Does that mean Kyle? You're Kyle Petty!

Damian Dunn: Excellent. Lisa Petty.

Wasn't Lisa Petty an actress in A League of Their Own? Nobody knows.

Peter Dunn: That was Lori Petty. Laura, whatever anyway,

Damian Dunn: four letters. I, yeah, there are challenges. And that's been one of the big rubs against the insurance industry for a long time is that it's not quite as strictly regulated as [00:23:00] the securities industry.

So if, if, uh, Insurance guy comes to you and says, Hey, you know what, we've got all these different options and we can potentially, uh, get you some extra growth in this little investment account inside of your insurance policy. And it's only going to cost you 20 times more than a term life insurance policy on a month to month basis.

It'll all work out for you because it's tax free income and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Uh, There's the regulation is just, just there. And that is, um, that has been a big rub, especially inside of the two industries for, for quite a while. Yes.

Peter Dunn: I, first of all, we are not being distrustful of insurance salespeople.

That's not what we're saying, but if, if you are calling something in an investment, which oftentimes universal life and Kristen even said the word as she's describing it, it has an investment component. I want the person selling it to me to be an investment expert. Right? That's, that's it. That, that, that is the, that is my [00:24:00] biggest beef because otherwise that person doesn't fully understand the other options that exist in the world to accomplish the same goal.

Right? Because if you go to an insurance salesperson who is not an investment expert, but they're an insurance expert and you say, Hey, I would actually like to buy term and invest the difference. They know how to overcome that objection in the form of, of insurance talk, but they don't have full comprehension of that on the spectrum of risk and understanding that that's my beef.

Kristen, do you, do you share that passionate beef?

Kristen Ahlenius: You know, I've never been able to describe it that way, but I think that you're exactly right is when you consider the tools and the tool belt of the professional that you're going to, if you're in front of someone who exclusively sells insurance, this is a product that might fit, but it's limited by the tools that they have available.

So if you're going to someone who has more tools available, more understanding, more licenses, there might be a [00:25:00] product that's a better fit for you.

Peter Dunn: Damn, I know this makeup artist and I'm friends with her on. Social media and she does like weddings and stuff. Okay. Every time she does someone's makeup, it looks like the same person.

That she literally, I've seen her do hundreds of people's makeup, but it's this distinct look that the, it looks exactly like the same person. Every finished product is the same person. There's no distinction. It is. One of the freakiest things you've ever seen. And so it's to say that is, that is her, that is her tool belt.

That is it. It is to make a person look like whatever that thing is. And to me, that is not a professional, right? That, that is not something that I would want to involve myself in. But I will say this, I, I actually don't have a lot of problem with universal life insurance. I, I think it is often, uh, missed.

Prescribed, uh, it is put into a situation. It shouldn't be, but there are a ton of situations that it makes a lot of sense in and it [00:26:00] doesn't actually bother me. I think it's more of the sales practices that bother me. Yes.

Damian Dunn: Now we're starting to wander into the, um, suitability versus fiduciary questions, uh, that come up and that's, it's becoming more and more prominent and I'm here for it because I think that's a really important distinction to be made for the customer or the client in, in these cases.

The best way I can describe it, uh, let's say, uh, Pete, you come to me, you need a suit. Uh, you need, you got a big event. We need, need to get you into something nice. I can put you into a suit because that's what you asked for. And that's what the situation requires for that is suitability. Fiduciary means I have to make sure it looks good on you.

Peter Dunn: Was part of this story that you just told here, which was lovely and I really liked it was the suit suitability. Was that part of the fun of it?

Damian Dunn: That can be, I realized that after I was going into it that I was going to have heavy on suit. But, uh, yeah, so that, yeah, [00:27:00] I gave you what the situation called for, but it may not have been the best application, may not have been the best fit for you.

Peter Dunn: I think I also get, yeah, I get stuck on this too, when within the sales process, people are like. Don't invest in a 401k. Oh, you need to do that. You need to do universal life instead. And it's like, okay, it can't be that binary. It just, it just can't, you, it doesn't, that doesn't make sense to me. And, and look, here's the thing.

There are people who understand how to supercharge these things and to make them. Incredibly efficient financial products. But here's what a person has to do yet again, they have to have a ton of cash flow, right? They have to, um, both appreciate flexibility, but never utilize it like that, that both products are like, Hey, they're very flexible.

But then the whole point is if you, if you employ that flexibility, It messes everything up

Kristen Ahlenius: by [00:28:00] maybe we should clarify on that because it can reduce your death benefit or your policy can lapse. Right?

Peter Dunn: Yeah. In the, in the early eighties, which Kristen, you weren't around in the early mid eighties, even the late eighties.

A lot of universal life policies were collapsing because when they were designed, uh, by the actuaries, they, they were designed with, with sort of false premise around the interest rates. And so they started to collapse. People were paying, and I'm air quotes, the wrong premium. And so then people had to rescue in a very expensive way, those life insurance policies.

And so there is a history of that. That is a, that is a thing that is not made up and that was a problem. And yes, a big. Part of that was how they were sold. So we will never on this show, say this product is good. And this product is bad because there's more nuance it to it than that. But I will say this Dame of the two things we talked about today.

I like universal life policies more than I do all in [00:29:00] one mortgages, but I think it's based on comprehension alone. It's with that we head to the break coming up after the break. Should a widow get out of the stock market age 72? We'll tell you next. I'm Pete, the planner.

Was that fair? Am I going to get emails from guys like named Travis? They're going to get mad and stuff. Yes. There's a guy named Travis. It's all universally. We

Kristen Ahlenius: also didn't talk about commission.

Peter Dunn: I think that clouds the I think that clouds the. Argument, but to your point, it actually enhances your argument.

But I think it just because someone makes a big commission on it in itself, doesn't make it a bad product. But I think your argument is that it does, but I

Kristen Ahlenius: disagree. It can is was my argument, but yes.

Peter Dunn: Dan, what do you think?

Damian Dunn: Um, I think it's interesting. A decade or [00:30:00] so ago, I think that's a different answer, but now I think about, okay, what other products could we potentially be talking about that have big commissions attached to them, annuities?

I mean, that's the first one that comes, another insurance product. But now there are annuities out there that don't have those huge commissions tied to them. So you can get around that. So I think it is fair to draw into the question how the compensation is given to the advisor or the salesperson. Uh, but it's, it doesn't tell the whole

Peter Dunn: story.

DoorDash has high commissions. Realtors have high commission. It doesn't mean you're not going to buy a house. You're not going to buy a taquito.

Damian Dunn: Although that, that, uh, that may change here in the not too distant future.

Peter Dunn: Did I just throw in another news story with you?

Damian Dunn: No, we talked about it on our news story a week or so ago.

And, um, that, that lawsuit went through and the realtors lost. And so they, they suspect that it's going to, uh, start lowering the [00:31:00] commissions, uh, across the board, across the nation as well.

Peter Dunn: Here we go. All right. Um, I will read this question. Oh, my slack is blowing up guys. I want to read the slack. No.

Damian Dunn: If this is on it, if this is on an HQ2, please mute any conversation that Pete's in just for the next 30 minutes. It's been, it was a solid.

Peter Dunn: It's been Shannon

Damian Dunn: Loves. Knock it off, guys. You don't make me

Peter Dunn: drive down there.

Kristen Ahlenius: Can you imagine

Peter Dunn: if you drove down here and he started getting old man, like me to perform for candy? Yeah. Dame. I mean, I don't want to get too out in front of her. Excuse. Someday you'll be dead. Okay. I mean, we just, it was work with me. True story. Work, work with me, Kristen. Don't you're not wrong. Don't get emotional.

Dame someday you will. You are going to be dead. Uh, are you going for like, uh, are you going to be, uh, burial [00:32:00] situation? You're going to, what are we putting in the rafters? What are we doing with you? Uh, cremation. Okay. Same, same, same. I don't need to be greedy and take a space on earth forever. Um, on that box.

Or a crown Royal back, whatever. We're going to keep you around then. Um, can we have a plate that I'll pay for? Like I'll actually make a deposit. Um, man, people are slacking right now. They're doing it again. And Ben's mentioning it on the

Damian Dunn: air. But he's not stopping. He's apologizing.

Peter Dunn: He's not stopping. I'm so distracted.

Dave, I'm gonna get a plate for your sack of ashes that says, made children perform for him. For candy. Oh my. Are you okay with that? Yeah, sure. He'll be dead. I think it's just appraising.

I think cremation is in itself a hot take.

Damian Dunn: Uh, very well. You guys like

Peter Dunn: a... Why is that such an [00:33:00] uncomfortable topic? It's not for me. It's not for me. Kristen's squirming. I mean, she's a lot younger. She's not as young as I am.

Damian Dunn: Kristen, I do believe, uh, if you, if you're ever curious, I think you can go on YouTube and watch a video of the entire cremation

Peter Dunn: process.

Oh, no, I don't want to watch it. What's wrong with you? We did that in my high school health class. I'm just saying. I don't want to watch. Hey, I'll say this. Um, Dame, I, I did something inappropriate at my house. We're on LinkedIn. Oh, we're on LinkedIn. Ah, okay. So I can't tell you what it was. Mrs. Planner and I were hanging out in the kitchen and I made an inappropriate joke.

Okay, we'll just go that way. I made an inappropriate joke. And she said, what's wrong with you? You're nearly 50 years old. Oh,

Damian Dunn: shots

Peter Dunn: fired. Dave, have you ever had it?

Damian Dunn: Well, do we talk about this last week or not? I, my [00:34:00] cousin sent me a, you know, a happy birthday man text. And I realized that I completely missed his birthday, but we've hung out, you know, all the time and, and he's four years older than me.

And I said, wait, are you 50? He said, yeah. And because, you know, I, you remember doing, you know, playing backyard football and delivering newspapers and going to the town pool. And all of a sudden you're like, man, this guy I've known literally forever. And think of him as basically the sibling that you never had.


Peter Dunn: 50. This is the deja vu. Part of the show. I'm gonna bring up skin tags next. Oh, yeah,

Damian Dunn: how'd that work out for you? So I need to text mrs. Planner and say no

Peter Dunn: we're not talking about this. I don't I'm grossed out I don't like anyone anymore in the world three two One back on the Pete, the planner show, uh, answering your money questions.

Uh, we got one this week from, uh, Libby. I don't know if it's a real [00:35:00] name. It's a fake name. I do believe that's the app you use to get books from the library. True. I am a 72 retired. Widow. I'm by the way, I'm now reading an email. I'm doing a character. So you do a voice Kristin or not? Probably not. I'm a 72 I'm gonna add words by the way when this person leaves out words just so it will read better.

That's fair I am a 72 year old retired widow. I have two million two hundred and ninety six thousand three hundred dollars In the stock market now if I was gonna reread that line I would say it like this. I have about 2, 296, 300 in the stock market. 414, 350 of that is a money market account making 5. 2 percent a year.

Dane, can I get a time out? Granted. That's great. Come on, way to go. Time [00:36:00] it. I received 3, 000 social security month along with four different gas and oil. Royalties timeout. Oh What

Damian Dunn: two two? In one segment. I

Peter Dunn: Look, I saw the defense. I had to adjust the plan gas and oil royalties. What damn what is even happening

Damian Dunn: here?

That's old school, man Every once in a while you get uh financial advisors that hooks you up with some alternative investments and gas and oil Uh is is something that i've seen float through an office every once in a while. Uh, But yeah, that's it's out there.

Peter Dunn: It's a real thing Here's a, here's a moment of, uh, clarity.

20 years ago or so when I was a financial advisor, and occasionally you'd run across a good gas or oil royalty. Uh, and so that person who was probably at the time, 72, who I would see that, and so that person found 92, and now this person 72, which is , which is a new 72 , how like, I can't believe gas and oil royalties are still a thing.

I, I just honestly [00:37:00] can't time it. I've become beyond fearful of what is going on in the world and want to take all of my money and put it in the money market account. This last year, I made 109, 000 in the stock market, and at 5. 2%, I would make more money than that yearly. My broker said that was a really bad idea.

What are your thoughts? If there's a market crash, I would be devastated. Maybe leave 10 percent in the market and let that grow. Any advice would be so helpful. It's hard to try to do this on my own without my husband. Thank you for your time, Libby, Libby, we're sorry for your loss. I know it can be really hard, uh, trying to run your financial life without the partner that you ran your life with for, for decades, it sounds like.

So I'm really sorry about that. Um, Dane, what do you, what do you think are, is this a classic case of the advisors risk tolerance is now getting in the way. Sure

Damian Dunn: feels like it, doesn't it? We already know that, uh, it's [00:38:00] all we know is what's been shared with us. Seems like the social security is taking care of the the day to day needs for Libby, which is fantastic to be in that situation.

We also know that She has a very, very low risk tolerance. Now when she says devastated, I'm assuming she means devastated emotionally and would lose sleep. She certainly wouldn't have any impact to her day to day life, uh, going forward, but

there are other issues to be, uh, thinking about, is it possible? There's tax consequences here. Maybe she didn't inherit this money from her husband. Maybe she's got a ton of capital gains wrapped up in this. And if she takes it out, sells it to cash, she's going to have a big old tax bill come due next year,

Peter Dunn: but it would still be long term gain a long term.

Sure. And

Damian Dunn: she's at a, you know, it's still [00:39:00] paying tax when you don't have to, if you can avoid it is tax. preferable. Uh, but does that outweigh the risk tolerance that the client finds themselves

Peter Dunn: in?

Kristen Ahlenius: Christy? I, in my opinion, the emailer, we just need to start with what's the goal for the money? Because if Libby really doesn't need it and doesn't have any like aspirations to like sell everything and like cruise, what are those like Norwegian cruises or viking cruises?

Like if, if Libby doesn't have aspirations to like, just like sell everything and just like blow all the money, if the goal is to leave it to someone, does it really matter if there's a scale back in the funds? Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't, maybe it doesn't matter, but I think we need to take a step back and like really ask what the goal is for the 2.

3 million.

Peter Dunn: Dame, why do you keep a flashlight in your pocket? So I can see things in the dark. [00:40:00] And if you didn't have a flashlight in your pocket and you were ever faced with that situation, you would be frustrated because you know what your strategy was. You just didn't have the flashlight in your pocket.

And I think in this circumstance, this woman knows what she wants. And the fear of not accomplishing that because someone else has deviated or from that plan is too much to deal with. It just, it is. And like, damn, I totally hear you on the tax consequences there. There are some mitigation strategies that she could use.

And this is not financial advice that I'm giving right now, but I, I'm, I am so with Libby. I am team Libby. I am a dad for Libby. I think I just want her to get out of the market because she doesn't want to be in the market. And what the heck's that really matter?

Damian Dunn: Can we, uh, go ahead, Kristen, cause I'm going to go a different direction.

Kristen Ahlenius: Well, I, I just have a question for the two of you. Do you think that this is the advisor they had when the husband was still [00:41:00] living?

Peter Dunn: Ooh,

Damian Dunn: so mine actually dovetails really nice into this. What do you think the chances are that this is Libby's kids advisor? Interesting.

Peter Dunn: Oh, okay. So then what we're saying, so Libby's 72, so the kids are, let's say someone that age, probably kids when they were 22.

So the kids are 50 mm-Hmm. forties. Forties. I mean about our age. Yeah, your age. The

Kristen Ahlenius: kids are 50.

Peter Dunn: Um, okay. So first of all, I definitely think it's a hubs. Advisor, whether it's the kids or not, that's what gets interesting, Dan, because then you're saying, well, of course, uh, the advisor wants them to grow wealth for the next generation for him to manage.

Damian Dunn: Now, to be fair, um, if the kids aren't already with that advisor, uh, there's a very low. Rate of take, uh, when, when somebody passes and the kids inherit [00:42:00] the money, the kids very rarely go with that advisor, but if there's a relationship already established there, this advisor may be thinking, man, we can grow this and I can have a really nice fee for the next 20, whatever, however many years they're still going to be or grow up, grow the book and have a bigger number to sell.

Uh, when it comes time for me

Peter Dunn: to retire. Yeah. So here's the thing, even if Libby nets out 2 million after taxes, which isn't necessarily the case, she's still going to make 105, 000 of interest on her money market account next year at that 5. 2%. This is not investment advice. But I would ask a lot about taxes.

I would actually go to a tax advisor and ask about taxes. I just don't her investment objective is stability is security is, is capital preservation. So what are we doing? It makes no sense.

Kristen Ahlenius: [00:43:00] Maybe. But I also think that if it is the husband's advisor, maybe there wasn't a time. We don't know. We didn't hear how long ago Libby was.

So like maybe if it's more recent, maybe Libby and that advisor haven't had a conversation and maybe it needs to be with a different advisor. Who knows? Had a conversation about this was a strategy when my husband was alive and now I have to have an investment strategy that makes me feel comfortable and maybe there's something in between.

Maybe with some additional like oversight, some education, some, a few extra meetings, maybe Libby grows in comfort that could legitimately be a possibility here.

Peter Dunn: I don't know whether Libby wrote to me because of the radio show or a newspaper column or something. I hope it's because of the radio show or the podcast because I mean she's hearing it right now.

But now I feel bad if it was a newspaper reader and then she's not going to get the answer. So now I feel like I got to email her back [00:44:00] directly. But I can't give investment advice, you know. Nobody will know. Alright. So if you want us to argue with each other about your financial life, email us. Ask

Then Kristen will make some brilliant point, like it was probably the husband's advisor and then Dame will make a brilliant point. It's probably the kids' advisors and I'll just make dumb jokes coming up after the break. Biggest waste of money of the week. And the news that's right here on The Pete the Planner Show, I'm Pete the Planner.

Big Rick Swink says just send her a link to the podcast and then I'm like, then I'm going to have to send her a link to what is a podcast. You know, like an explanation. That's, that's

Damian Dunn: tough. Pete, we just had a couple weeks ago, we had, uh. Email from somebody saying they listen to us. Oh, yeah On the elliptical or whatever they're doing.

Peter Dunn: Have you ever seen one of those bikes out in the roadways? That is an elliptical [00:45:00] Sort of thing. It's like a bike but you do the elliptical motion to make the bike move forward

Damian Dunn: I haven't seen one in person. I've seen videos of them and they look crazy as all get out

Peter Dunn: I we saw one in in real life the other day And my kids and my wife were like, that looks like something you would buy and then use twice and then we would be in our garage.

And I was like, thank you? Like, I don't know, what am I to do with that? Like, uh, okay, yeah, I, I'm terrible, thank you. I'm really feeling it, like, when she, when she said, like, you're almost 50. And there's nothing wrong with 50. I mean, the thing is, I, I, I work with people who are 50. I have friends who are 50. I don't care.

But like, when you think of yourself aging. Is that hit you recently, Kristen? This is conversation is not for you. You can just sit back and watch two old guys. Dame has, has your aging hit you recently? Yeah, yeah,

Damian Dunn: a lot. I mean, specifically because I'm, we're going to get real personal at this point, but, uh, 10 years away from [00:46:00] the age my dad passed away at.

Yeah. And so I just, I see, I see calendars in front of me everywhere I go. Yeah, man.

Peter Dunn: I'm, I'm in so in my head about aging right now. I don't, it's so weird. Of course, then again, I'm not exactly doing everything I can to slow down the effects of aging. I'm not drinking a sahi smoothie bowl, power bowls like Kristen does.

Budget smoothies. Budget. Callback.

Craig P. Anderson. Uh, coach to the successful says, yes, your life will come to a screeching halt. I have not grown at all since I hit 57 years ago. Yeah. Right. It is weird. Dame. I never at 40 when I turned 40 people like that was like the old over the Hill back in the day. But I, I think maybe is it, is it 50?

I'll just say maybe seven, eight years ago, my mentor, I remember [00:47:00] his 50th birthday party and just, And him being really introspective about it, and it seemed like a distant, like there's no way I was ever going to get there. And I'm like, right there. The heck?

Heather says she feels you. She said, uh, just, she just passed the age her mom was when she passed. It's hard. I'm on bonus time now. She said, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Rick swing coming off the top rope with have you looked at the age of the golden girl characters? Yeah, we know. Um, now people are slacking me again.

Maybe you know what? Maybe I do want to get older. So I don't have to deal with people distracting me during broadcast. They don't respect you. Pete. Oh, I don't get caught up in respect.

All right. I'm going to, I'm going to new Orleans apparently now I found out last night. Which is fine with me because I love New Orleans and I will take years off my life [00:48:00]

Damian Dunn: Doesn't got it already got your beignet order

Peter Dunn: Cued up. It's delicious. Okay Let's do a show Did it in three not ready? Okay, I think I'm ready.

Is everybody ready here? Mm hmm. Oops Three, two, wait, I'm not ready. Sorry, everybody calm down. I'm older now. Three, two, one. This week's biggest waste of money of the week right here on the Pete the Planner show is... I didn't pull up the graphic. Oh no. All right. Well, everyone calm down. I'm I'm getting older.

I, I don't even really understand how my phone works anymore. Okay, here we go. Everyone. It is the. Volbeck Solar Charged Hat, made from a highly responsive material. The Volbeck Solar Charged Hat is [00:49:00] engineered to support journeys to the coldest and darkest places on Earth. Its green outer shell is designed to glow like kryptonite when exposed to light.

Whether you draw on it with an iPhone torch or a flashlight, charge it under a light bulb or wear it out in the sun, the fabric absorbs the light and instantly radiates a mutant like glow built with a triple layered construction, including ripstop nylon used in parachutes for lightweight strength, uh, insulation made from recycled plastic bottles and soft fleece lining.

The solar charged hat will keep you warm in extreme temps. While ensuring you stay dry in rain or snow, it's finished with an adjustable storm flaps reinforced with Cordura panels for durable ear protection. Dame, you are a bald man, correct? I am a bald man. And I have to say in my bold journey, you were really instrumental in me [00:50:00] understanding the power of a good hat.

Oh, like you currently are wearing a hat. That's

Damian Dunn: fantastic. It's keeping me nice and toasty and regulating my temperature. I love it.

Peter Dunn: I have worn hats, uh, you know, build hats, but then I started wearing stocking caps as a bald man, and so our head warmth is vital to our survival. Indeed. So we can continue our mediocrity here on Earth.

Kristen, what do you believe... Oh my. this Volbeck solar charged hat... Costs.

Kristen Ahlenius: We all, we have different buying needs, the three of us, as far as headwear. That was

Peter Dunn: privileged. I'm

Kristen Ahlenius: sorry. Um, 200.

Peter Dunn: I feel like you didn't even try there.

Kristen Ahlenius: I, I, you guys, I really, I don't have any of an idea.

Peter Dunn: Well, it's never stopped you from dumb guesses before it didn't stop

Kristen Ahlenius: me this time either

Peter Dunn: Dame,

Damian Dunn: I feel like this is something you'd see [00:51:00] on Amazon or a tick tock channel selling something It's some knockoff, but the name Volbeck sounds European and like it's gonna have be overpriced for some reason cuz originally I was gonna say like 89, but I will go with 350 because of the name

Peter Dunn: Well, I will note last week was the VOLBAC indestructible belt.

Do you remember that? Uh, and I don't even know if I'm saying it right. That's the other thing. It's V O L L E B A K. I think you're right. 395. Damien Dunn knows his headwear. Dame. Right here. What's in the news this week?

Damian Dunn: Lenders have a proposition for homebuyers who can't stomach an 8 percent mortgage rate.

Buy now and refinance later for free. Lenders are making these offers because the market for mortgages cratered as the federal reserve rates on [00:52:00] interest rates. That doesn't make sense. We should have read that copy first. Two decades, uh, to two decade highs to tame inflation. The average rate on a 30 year fixed rate mortgage is 7.

79 percent as of the time of the article, according to Freddie Mac. But is it a good deal for buyers? As those buyers who have had to pull their signature, put their signature down on the 150 plus times it takes to get a home loan. No, nothing about mortgages is ever simple. Usually lenders who offer buy now refinance later mortgages will give some borrowers a certificate or another type of IOU that gives them access to a credit that can be used to pay for some of the costs associated with a future refinance.

Other lenders may roll the future closing costs. into the loan amount or waive lender fees. Each lender's offer is different, but it comes at the cost of higher internal expenses on the current

Peter Dunn: mortgage. Yeah, there's always a cost. So Dame [00:53:00] it's weird. A person probably should not get one of these. They should get a normal mortgage and if they're going to refinance pay to refinance.

Damian Dunn: That's probably the best route because you don't know when you're going to refinance. You don't know if there's going to be a time limit on that refinance. There's just so many variables to this.

Peter Dunn: Kristen, do you like it? Is this an all in one mortgage?

Kristen Ahlenius: As far as I understand, which is very little, it is not an all in one mortgage.

But I, I think it's just trying to incentivize people to, my thing is you can just refinance anyway. And like you said, Pete, just You can pay the fee to refinance if it's really in your best interest. So I think it's just trying to get people to make the leap now that maybe they weren't sure that they should or shouldn't make.

I don't love it.

Peter Dunn: Don't love it. Name. What else is the news

Damian Dunn: mint? The budgeting app owned by into it is shutting down into it announced on Tuesday that mint will get absorbed into into its other service. Credit [00:54:00] Karma when it officially goes away on January 1st, 2024. Thanks for the heads up mint, but it's still not clear whether credit karma will get the budgeting features that mint is known for.

So just make sure you're following along. A budgeting app is getting absorbed into another product, but it's not sure that that other product is going to offer. Budgeting moving on, uh, into its first acquired mint in 2009. And after offered for a freeway for users to track their budgets, manage expenses, negotiate bills, keep tabs on subscriptions.

And now Intuit is inviting users to credit karma, a service of the company acquired in 2020, while credit karma offers similar features like the ability to view transactions, track spending, aggregate financial accounts, and credit monitoring. It still doesn't come with the same budget tracking tool that many people specifically use mint for, and it's not clear whether credit karma will.


Peter Dunn: the number of people who sent me this article this week, including Mrs. Planner. Uh, wow. Lots. Cause this is in our wheelhouse. Y'all. I [00:55:00] mean this is in our wheelhouse. I will say here's the cynical side of me. They've given up on helping people budget. In lieu of helping people have a better credit score, which on the surface, maybe you're like, Oh, okay.

Well, I mean, no, it doesn't. It's a terrible idea. You heard it from the balls. It's a terrible, terrible idea for the consumer. Kristen, you're not as an alarmist as, as the older people here are. Uh, what do you think?

Kristen Ahlenius: I I'm just really curious. I wish I could know more about why. This decision was even made because if it was maybe from a cost perspective, mint has always been free and then always had ads as part of that.

Like was there and maybe they did a customer discovery group and people weren't willing to pay for it, but I'm just surprised that you wouldn't try to offer something paid to keep those two products separate. I'm a little confused

Peter Dunn: by it. It seems like a step backward from what technology can [00:56:00] offer. I don't.

I don't get it. And I mean, here's the thing, game. I mean, I don't, we're pulling back the curtain a little bit here, but as an organization, your money lane, like we have meant style services with it within our product. Like we have budget and account aggregation where people can get an entire look at what they do.

And it's wild to me that someone just shut their whole thing down after 14 years. Like, cause it is progress. It is not regress.

Damian Dunn: Yeah, it's it's a bit of a head scratcher. Uh, I know there have been questions about other Potential alternatives even in some of the comments that we're getting here. Um monarch money is one that I've used in the past.

These are all paid by the way That's going to be the big difference These aren't going to be free subscriptions because if you're not paying anything for the product You are the product you're being sold to uh, yeah, it's

Peter Dunn: true. I know but that was so good It was a good line. I like

Damian Dunn: it [00:57:00] Monarch money is a really good one.

It's got a beautiful interface. Uh, one that we've loved your money line for a long time. Lunch money, uh, lunch money app, uh, I think is the, the, the full, uh, website. Um, Oh, and there was a third one that that's escaping me at the moment, but there are some other really, really good apps out there and most of them aggregate anymore as well.

So, uh, go explore, have fun, find something that works for you.

Peter Dunn: Fair enough. Uh, Dame, time for one more?

Damian Dunn: Uh, no, no, I don't have any time.

Peter Dunn: Alright, so Kristen, what did we learn this week? We learned that there's something called an all in one mortgage that none of us understand. We don't get it. Therefore, we cannot see a purpose for it until we understand it.

We explored universal life insurance, which there is a purpose for it in the right circumstance, but we do struggle to make sure that you buy it from someone that has a full understanding of how investments work. And then finally, we encouraged a widow [00:58:00] to re examine her risk tolerance. And that's the show.

So therefore, we are sending you good vibes because good vibes are all that's in the budget. I'm Pete the Planner. This is the Pete the Planner Show.

That was good. If, if you, what was it? If you don't, if the product, what was it? If you don't pay

Damian Dunn: for the product, you are the

Peter Dunn: product. I mean, gee, many Christmas. You're like John Stossel all of a sudden. That's so good. I'm sure I heard it somewhere. It does feel like it. It's like if you're, if you can't find the sucker, you're the sucker.

Isn't it like playing cards with a guy named Tex or something? I'm sure I heard it somewhere. Craig P. Anderson does point out that. Kristen yields the subtle tyranny of hair privilege. Wow. You guys, I am now not going to New Orleans. What? I'm just telling you, this happens. Stop reading slack! I can't help it, it's like, I, I, I'm not going now, I, I don't [00:59:00] want to read about it live on.

The show here because I don't want to say something I shouldn't too late, but I'm not going now. Maybe they'll bring

Damian Dunn: you back some

Peter Dunn: food. No one's going. Oh, in the history ever. And I'm not going now. Anyway, I gotta go. I got things to do. Sorry.

Damian Dunn: Book a trip. Book a flight to New Orleans just to recover from not going to New Orleans.

Peter Dunn: Good point. Dame, I'm so glad you're not, uh, as sick as you were earlier this week. Same. Kristen, I'm glad you're back to the safety and security of your home, uh, as opposed to being in the big city as a city mouse, country mouse, city mouse. Thank you. Is that? Is that? Yeah. Okay. I'm going to go. I'm, I'm done with all of, uh, talking to people.

So, um, stay getting money.