December 8, 2023

When should you NOT max out your retirement plan contributions?

On this week's episode, Dame, Kristen, and Pete discuss scenarios in which it makes no sense to max-out your retirement plan contributions.Also, stolen valor.

Episode Transcript

Damian Dunn: Earlier this week, Dame wasn't having the best. Of days the reasons really aren't all that important, but let's just say I was happy that it was Krav night and I was going to get to go work out. So at Krav working out having fun Kind of hurting people but 15 minutes into the workout my phone rings and I know because I have my watch on and I think Well, based on who it is, I probably ought to go answer it.

So I do. And Mrs. Advice says you need to go pick up one of your kids from practice. They're having an even worse day than you. All right. My immediate reaction was not one of grace or understanding. I'm not proud of it, but it wasn't, but thankfully I had a 15 minute drive to pick up my child and my attitude began to soften, thinking if they're having an even worse day than I am.

Something must have gone horribly wrong. Get to practice, and as I'm pulling in the parking lot, [00:01:00] I get another call from Mrs. Advice saying, They don't want to talk about it. Don't ask them any questions. Just get them home to me as quick as you can. Okay. Alright. I understand my orders at this point. Child gets in the car, reiterates that they don't want to talk about it, and we head home.

In silence.

About halfway home, I think, I have to do something. I am a parent. I, I need to, to try and make this better somehow. So my genius idea is ice cream. Ice cream makes everything better. So I look at my child and say, would you like to get some ice cream on the way home? Well, mom said, I don't care what mom said.

We're gonna make this decision on our own. Now, full disclosure, I had already checked with mom and mom gave us the thumbs up. So Tom Dunn didn't raise no fool. We stopped, get ice cream, and I can see a smile start to crack the [00:02:00] sadness and pain on my child's face. And I'm feeling great. Like I did something really, really good as a parent.

We continue to smile and enjoy the ice cream and joke and laugh a little bit on the way home and we pull in the garage. The door flies open, mom comes out, gives hugs to everyone and we head in the house and that's when I hear it

and I turn around and in my sweet joy of having a smile on my child's face, I didn't pull in the garage far enough. And the garage door had slid down the back of our SUV, which brings us to our first guessing game. Our first ever guessing game of a cold open Pete and Kristen. How was the estimate to fix the damage on the back of our SUV?

Peter Dunn: I've been there. I've done [00:03:00] actually everything you've just said. I've been a part of and I also immediately thought ice cream is where he's going because is what a dad does. Yeah. I'm thinking 1, 400 Kristen on

Kristen Ahlenius: the newest vehicle in your family. Oh, my,

Damian Dunn: I'm not, I will say no body damage. It's all paint and a little bit of plastic scraping.

Kristen Ahlenius: Yeah, but it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter because like the back panels probably come all the way to the front and like, I'm going to say three grand.

Damian Dunn: Twenty four hundred dollars. Twenty four hundred dollars is the right answer for Damien's genius.

Kristen Ahlenius: That is not where I thought that story was going.

Peter Dunn: Welcome to Friday, everybody. I, I, I kept thinking that like the punchline to this was, they got home and at school they found out they were lactose intolerant. I like, that's where I thought this was going. DAme, I'm sorry that happened. New classic dad story. [00:04:00] Yeah. Kristen, welcome back to The Living.

Kristen Ahlenius: Yes. I'm so thankful to be

Peter Dunn: here. You are at what percent we said

Kristen Ahlenius: better maybe like 75%.

Peter Dunn: Okay. 75%. KrIsten also celebrated her five year anniversary at your money line this past week. So Kristen you, we have all worked together now for five years. Congratulations.

Kristen Ahlenius: Thank you. Thank you. I was excited for this milestone.

It felt like it took forever to get to like once I hit like three and a half, I seem, it feels like it took a lot longer to get like the back half of that five years. Welcome

Peter Dunn: to the world of VC. You, you get a trip of course for five years here. You're my only, did you say where you're going? Did you tell us?

Kristen Ahlenius: I did. So when I talked a few weeks ago about how we got tickets to the rodeo, I am spending the whole weekend at PBR for it's going to be an Indy

Peter Dunn: in March. Great. Rodeo's a good [00:05:00] time. You know what? I should take my kids to that when it's here. You should. Alright. Let's do a show.

Unfortunately, Jeremiah, we've got to make a a fast show. So here we go. Dame has sent some questions through. We are going to hit the right buttons and we're going to start the show in three. This week on the Pete, the planner show, we answer your money questions. Here's how the show works. You email us.

Ask Pete at Pete, the planner. com. That's ask Pete at Pete, the planner. com. And here's what will happen. The three headed monster of personal financial guidance will slay you with dragon's breath. I know. Sorry. Kristen Alanius, Damien Dunn, Peter Dunn. No relation. Join you here today. Hello, Dame. Good day, Kristen.

Hello. Fantastic. All right. So the first question is it comes to us and is sort of short and sweet. Does it ever come to a point in time? Does it ever make sense for a person to not max out? [00:06:00] Their employer-sponsored retirement plan, which I what this year dam is what? 22? 22 5. What's the, what, what is it?


Damian Dunn: in that neighborhood? No one does, does, for sure. I, I do. It's 22. 22 5 22

Peter Dunn: 5. Man. Yeah, boy. Kind of new and instead contribute between non-qualified accounts. So let's think about this for a second. The question is, stop short of the IRS max and take that money and then put it into a non-retirement account that does not have tax advantages.

Per se, I mean, I'm going to toss it to the geniuses here, but of course, there's always a circumstance of which something makes sense. Kristen, how do you begin to get your head around this? Is this a frequent thing that people should do or what do you think?

Kristen Ahlenius: I mean, it's probably gonna come as no surprise to anybody that I think it's personality dependent, but I would be very hypocritical if I said someone shouldn't do this because gentlemen, this absolutely is part of my strategy.[00:07:00]

I don't max out. I don't max out my 401k and I certainly invest in non qualified accounts. Okay.

Peter Dunn: Before we dig deeper onto that Dame, how do you want to initially weigh in here?

Damian Dunn: I'm just taking notes to make sure that I keep that in my file for a future review with Kristen Alenius.

Peter Dunn: All right.

Damian Dunn: Yeah, I completely agree that.

Yes, it's situation dependent, but there are any number of scenarios where it would make sense to potentially not contribute to the employer workplace plan, even to, to the max at least and contribute to a non retirement account because there are so many things maybe you want to retire early and you need a bridge to get from your age to where you can access those funds, a penalty and or tax free and you just need some extra cash.

You don't have the pension. You don't have anything else. So you decide you're going to set up your own little bridge to get there and that's likely going to come in a non qualified

Peter Dunn: account. It's just like a blog post [00:08:00] being. Waiting to be written, right? It's this, you know, five circumstances in which this is true.

Like I, I didn't think of the use cases either of you said, I thought of two other use cases. I thought of a pre retiree who's got so much in non qual already, and they are not yet 59 and a half, and they really need to. Improve their non qualified access to money. I think of that circumstance, I think about someone saving for a down payment, which is sort of what we talked about here a little bit.

And then I also thought of the circumstance of which that somehow the IRS max gets a person top heavy and they don't really want to do that. They don't want to fund that much of their retirement. So. It's funny when we talked about this question in pre production, I thought, well, yeah, I didn't really think through it, but there's a bazillion reasons why a person would do.

Damian Dunn: Yeah. If we had asked this [00:09:00] question, you know, 10 years ago, the answer could have been because somebody inherited a number of. IRA accounts or 401k accounts from a parent and they had the light their lifetime to take that money out in an RMD. That's not the case anymore. But if maybe you you inherit one from your spouse and the RMD rules are a little bit different than what they would be for a child or other relative at that point.

So there's a number of situations where you could potentially have enough in, in a taxable retirement account that you can start to chase either maybe the Roth 401k version, if you want to at work or. And get the match. I believe me, I'm not advocating for not getting the match because that's free money.

I think you absolutely need to do that. But then start to shift your focus into other areas, which very likely are going to include non qualified accounts. Kristen,

Peter Dunn: don't you think this is all determined based on whether a person has really good financial goals or not? Because it's sort of hard to say, I'm not gonna max it out.

Why not? Why? [00:10:00] No particular reason. You need a reason. You actually need a reason. It needs to be part of a tactic.

Kristen Ahlenius: Yeah, 100%. And what I was kind of thinking through is like, is there a situation where I would argue against, like, a strategy that I personally am utilizing, and I would say, if you're someone who is maybe later in your career than I am, and you didn't begin your career, journey with qualified accounts as early as I did, right?

The three of us, because we launched our careers in this space, we knew the importance of investing in qualified accounts from the jump. If someone didn't and let's say they get started a decade or even two decades behind when the three of us did and they're like, well, I'm not sure that I really want to max out my qualified accounts.

Then I'm like Ooh, maybe we should, maybe that is the place to start.

Peter Dunn: I'm going through my own situation now in my head. And, and for me, I max out, uh, my qualified account from a, from a tax sensitivity standpoint, right? Like for [00:11:00] me, it just makes a lot of sense to do that. And I can figure out the non qual part later, but I'm trying to bring my, my income down.

I think that's the other aspect of this because. To answer it the way you originally answered it, Kristen, is to say there is going to be a finite amount of money that you're willing slash able to set aside for the future, whether it's short or long term. And, and I think it is, that is also saying you don't prioritize.

the tax consequences of doing so and respectfully, right? Yeah,

Kristen Ahlenius: 100%. And I would also say that I tend to be there's personal preference there as well. I tend to be someone who doesn't get supremely hung up in the tax arguments of Roth versus traditional non qualified versus qualified just from a tax perspective.

And I recognize that's because my situation is different than maybe the two of yours. That situation is different from maybe someone listening to the show. So it depends on where your priority is as [00:12:00] far as the tax side of it as well. I think,

Peter Dunn: well, damn, I don't feel too differently about this conversation as I do about HSA contributions, right?

It's like you could also say, well, yeah, I'm doing that for some level of an emergency medical emergency fund for the future and the tax advantage. But maybe I'm doing something more short term and practical that is not putting money in an HSA. I mean, it's a similar idea. Yeah,

Damian Dunn: I completely agree. I think maybe the the takeaway from this conversation is going to end up being have a plan.

They'll be in tune, whether that's your whether you're working with a professional financial advisor on creating a short, mid and long term plan or whether you're trying to DIY it, you need to be able to identify exactly what path you will try and take. Now that path is going to change over the course of years.

There's nothing we can do to change that. But have a plan and work towards it. Know how you're going to try and accomplish those goals. And sometimes it isn't the the cookie cutter approach. A lot of times it's not going to be the [00:13:00] cookie cutter approach because we are all unique individuals with unique circumstances and we have to come at it a different way to make sure that we can accomplish what we want to.

Peter Dunn: I feel like I have a hot take bubbling. Who wants to catch it? You haven't been here in a while. You're catching this one. So you hear all of these commercials from investment advisors to say we don't give cookie cutter advice. You know, we don't. You know, your investments are personal. Personalized investment portfolios.

I think all of that is hot garbage. But to Dame's point here, the strategy of how much to set aside into and what qualification status that is wildly important. But like the idea of like, well, your portfolio is personal and custom. It's like, well, that's dumb. That even makes sense. Is that is that a hot take?

Or is that actually real?

Kristen Ahlenius: I don't think it's a hot take. I think it's absolutely real. I think the three of us are on the same page about

Peter Dunn: that. Damn. I'm just making sure that she's not agreeing for you, but you do

Damian Dunn: agree. Yeah. Now we're talking about [00:14:00] asset location, tax location, things like that, but absolutely this is a legit strategy to personalize your financial plan.

Peter Dunn: Nothing drives me crazier than those commercials. Like this is a custom portfolio. It's like you don't need a custom portfolio close to no one, 5 percent of people, maybe. Maybe and even then their custom portfolio causes so much more heartache than a non custom one would. So let's do this. Let's everyone calm down.

We take a break. Coming back after the break. We are going to talk about refinancing your mortgage. No, we're not. We're talking about paying more on your mortgage. If it's a high interest rate, that's next on the Pete the planner show. I'm Pete the planner. I forgot. No. Okay, guys, can I tell you a story?

Please. I was in Lexington this week. Kentucky, and there's two stories to be told. One of them I don't, I'm not going to tell on the air and it's not that it's an inappropriate story. I don't want to share. It's just like, it kind of, [00:15:00] I was able to procure several bottles of allocated bourbon. Like that's a story.

No one cares, but it was, I got home. I felt crossing state lines with that many bottles. I felt like I was committing some level of

Damian Dunn: criminality. What those dumb boys go and do now. Oh

Peter Dunn: man. Dukes of hazard reference there. aNyway, so here's the story. It's, it's sort of my favorite topic and you're going to figure this out very quickly.

I Oh man, hold on in the comments here. Todd is bringing up Todd from the Todd. This is not right. Todd is bringing up in the live chat right now that Tottenham, my club, my Spurs, have taken their lumps recently. They lost to West Ham yesterday.

Damian Dunn: This is a soccer reference for those of you just, just playing along now.

Peter Dunn: So I wake up Thursday morning. Early at my hotel. I'm at the city center in [00:16:00] Lexington, downtown Lexington, and there's a Starbucks hop, skip and jump away. And I need to go figure. Go figure. Yeah. And I don't want a Keurig coffee that's in my room. It was too many stories. So I go and I'm barely awake, barely awake.

And so I'm standing in line at Starbucks. And there's this nice young woman in front of me in full fatigues, right? Military fatigues. She was like the ROTC or something. And like, she was there. I don't know, by the way, maybe you don't call them full fatigues. I don't know. I've never heard that. Go ahead.


Damian Dunn: never, never fatigues. Yes, but not full fatigues. I, you know. Chris, those BDUs, was that the, the term that was, Greatest Drone Units?

Peter Dunn: Anyway, yes. So she's wearing camo, like, I mean, she's not going deer hunting, she's in the military. She's in front of me, she's got her boots laced up, and, and, and so she's standing there, and she's putting her order, and in my head, I'm saying to myself, as, [00:17:00] as any reasonable human would say, I'm going to buy this woman's car.

I'm just going to say, Hey, thanks for your service. I got this right. I assume either of you have done this or thought about it or yeah, people do this, done this before. I'm going to do it in this moment. And so as I go to raise my, my hand to get the attention of the barista. To say I got it. Woman behind me in line says, I've got it.

This woman stole my valor. Stolen valor. Stolen valor. She stole my valor. And so I was so upset. I was so upset. So I, you know, I was like, okay, okay. And I was, and so that happened. The woman got back in line behind me, which is again, over overtly polite to then not put her order in. She was gonna order twice

So then I get up to the counter. And the barista says to me, I put my order in, just a blonde, whatever, blondress, she goes, [00:18:00] You know what? Thank you so much for your patience while that was happening. This one's on me. So she thanked me for my service. I stole Valor back! Like, I, I stole Valor. And so I was like, what a way to start my day.

And I immediately thought Man, it's my favorite topic. Stolen Valor.

Damian Dunn: Have you ever been happier to not be wearing fashion camo?

Peter Dunn: When that was funny, you say that you were not, but I am today. So if you can see today, I do have some fashion camo on, but yes, I was very glad that I had no fashion camo on. Yes, which you know, I'll have to say at this point, I've got at least three different pieces of fashion camo.

I have some sneakers Of a vest and I have these pants all together. You can't even see me She couldn't even give me a free coffee because she'd be like Why is there foliage in the store?

Oh [00:19:00] my. So many bottles of bourbon. I'm happy for you. I don't know. The thing was, I was hitting up my bourbon friends, which is a weird dump. I hate myself. And I was like, procuring bottles. I was catching Venmo's left and right. I'm like a black market bourbon dealer at this point. Did

Damian Dunn: you know that I'm going to be in the office on Tuesday?

Peter Dunn: no. I thought I heard Kristen's going to be in the office on Tuesday. I'm going to be there too. Well, I'll just, I'll let you look at pictures of the bottle stamp. All right, let's get back to the show. We got to keep it moving, Jeremiah. And three, two, one back on the Pete, the planner show, you know, Kristen Dame with interest rates as high as they aren't by interest rates.

I mean, all interest rates, specifically mortgage rates should a person who's purchased 12 months at, at higher interest rates. if they have extra money laying [00:20:00] around, should they put that towards that high interest mortgage? And this is a point of distinction because here's what's I'm going to have to share some things about my financial life.

Dame, I have a two and a half percent mortgage, which everyone knows because I talk about it a lot, but I pay at least 500 more a month on that mortgage as, but it's weird because I'm doing it as a part of a plan. From a college funding cashless standpoint. So it is part of my financial strategy, despite the fact that I'm getting rid of an amazing asset, which is a two and a half percent mortgage.

In this circumstance, we're saying the person probably has a 7 percent mortgage or something of the ilk and, and should they get rid of it faster? So we w we will begin there and I will, I will hang up and listen.

Damian Dunn: I like like everything in finance. Unfortunately, the answer is it depends. I if we should we narrow the focus down so it's a little bit more narrow on what the [00:21:00] options actually are or maybe the circumstances are. Kristen, do you think that's fair? I think that's fair. So let's say the person's in their early 30s.

In this case they are doing okay with retirement savings. And they have one kid with one on the way.

Peter Dunn: This is oddly specific. Very specific. They wear yellow shoes on a regular basis. They love ramen noodles. The camo

Damian Dunn: fashion camo is their jam. I was just trying to figure this out so we can have a reasonable conversation around it because we can, we can play what ifs with scenarios like this forever.

iN this particular case, I think it really depends on what are their goals and what are their plans? Are they playing? How much are they planning on saving for education? How? How much do they have an emergency fund? Do they have any? Thank you. Upcoming needs for the house. Are there going to be remodels or repairs?

Anything like that? I, I think we have to step back and say, okay, let's take a bigger picture. [00:22:00] Look at this, Kristen, do you agree or disagree?

Kristen Ahlenius: I don't disagree. I think for me, the hangup is. When we just say that like there's a flat sum of money and you're like, Oh, well, I'll just allocate it to this. Okay.

But what does that mean with respect to the mortgage? Does that turn your 30 year loan into a 25 year loan? Does that turn your 30 year loan into a 20 year loan? I would prefer for us to take it from the perspective of we have a goal for payoff. We want to turn our 30 into a 20 or our 30 into a 25 and that's going to take x dollars Of the 500 dollars in free cash flow we have available Versus just saying, Hey, I have 500 and I'm just going to toss it at my mortgage.

Because before you know it, as your escrow increases, you don't really know what that means for the mortgage anyway. I would just prefer to go at it from that perspective.

Peter Dunn: Yeah. Cause going from a 30 to a 27 or something like that by accident, just because you're throwing money at something doesn't feel that appealing.

It doesn't seem that practical. However, to your [00:23:00] point, If it is plan driven, it is timing driven. I like it because that's frankly what I am doing. It is time driven. I also got to think with Dame's oddly specific example of whatever that person is, change,

Damian Dunn: change, whatever you want. I don't care. I was just trying to have a conversation.

Peter Dunn: No, I it's hard not to argue that that person should not just put money in savings. Like I understand the nature of a 7 percent interest rate versus getting, you know, 5 percent in a betterment account. But if they don't have a proper emergency fund with one kid and one kid on the way, man, that's going to haunt you for the first 14 years or the next 14 years of

Damian Dunn: your life.

Okay, so maybe the conversation becomes invest it or pay off the mortgage right now. Invest it or pay off the mortgage.

Peter Dunn: Kristen, do you want to add any more odd specifics to this?

Kristen Ahlenius: No, no, I don't think so. But So, okay, so pause though because Pete, I [00:24:00] think you and I are a little bit biased because we both said like, we prefer it to be this way because I know, we all know because you've talked about it, about like the goal with your mortgage, right?

There's a specific goal that you want to be mortgage free. There's this date you want to be mortgage free by. For me, I want to, I, my 30 year as far as I'm concerned is a 20 year. Right. And you're like, I don't really see the appeal to just throwing some extra money at the mortgage. But part of this conversation actually arose because friend of the show, Caitlin, she just like tosses money in her mortgage when she has it available.

And she finds that like supremely appealing. She looks at the amortization schedule, Pete, that she got when she first took out her mortgage and she'll be like, look, I'm paid until. July of 2026. Like she finds that to be really motivating. So I think it's about also to be fair, what motivates us as people when it comes to our personal finances.


Peter Dunn: what jumps out to me, and I know you have comments on this thoughts on this too, but Dane, what jumps out to me here, and I'm curious if you share this. I wonder if this person pays their mortgage in person. Well, no [00:25:00] one does that. No, I, I do that. I'm going to do it next Friday.

Damian Dunn: Do you, how many suckers do you take?

I don't,

Peter Dunn: I do it through the drive through.

Damian Dunn: They give you suckers at the drive thru, Pete.

Peter Dunn: No, I'm the sucker. I don't want I don't want your suck candy. You know, have you thought about this? They had to choose a name for suckers at some point. Like, someone was like, okay, what do we call this? Oh, we have suck on them.

We call them suckers. Think of the names they rejected. Like, it was like, Hey, I want some suck candy. Like no one, you know, it's like it's a rejected candy title. And it could

Damian Dunn: be, I mean, there's lollipops. I mean, you could go by the brand name, at least it's common in Northern Indiana dumb dumbs, which are actually made in Western Ohio.

I would, maybe they've made their way down to Indianapolis area. But yeah, I mean, so you don't have to call them suckers just for some reason. That's what we all refer to

Peter Dunn: them as. So, Dame, don't you, I mean, look for this example, I have to think there's a better use [00:26:00] A 500 than throwing. That's not to say throwing at your mortgage is a bad use.

It's great. You're You're shifting your net worth beautiful. I love it But there's got to be a better us or at least a more strategic, you know,

Damian Dunn: I I I agree. I mean Don't get me wrong. The fact that you are doing something wise with your money getting rid of a debt, moving your net worth forward all counts on the power percentage, right?

I think you've got time. And if we're thinking longterm, I think there's, there's got to be something. A little bit more strategic that could be done with it. Not that not to get rid of your mortgage is a bad thing, but maybe there's a better

Peter Dunn: answer. Can I ask a follow up question, Christy? Of course. So it's, it's sporadic.

It's like a random. It's not like a set amount. Are you talking about Caitlin? The person that's like paying 500 more, it'd be Stephanie with an F. Like, cause you can spell it a few different ways. If you want it to, [00:27:00] when you name your child and you put it on the birth certificate, anyway, like is the, is it 500 a month or is it like, I got an extra five hundy, I'm going to throw it at it.

Like, what's the, what's the, what's the use case here?

Kristen Ahlenius: Well, I think that both yield kind of interesting like thoughts for me, because if you have an extra 500 a month and that is consistent to me, there should be a purpose for it. And it should be the same every month. If there is 500 in discretionary income in your budget, you, if, if it's the mortgage, if it's an investment account, 100%, if it's, randomly 500, then you should leverage the idea of the next dollar and you should know in advance when you have those discretionary dollars, where to put your next dollar.

I mean,

Peter Dunn: I will say personally again, cause people love to hear my mind's a tree the last last few pay periods just by the nature of how payroll works. I have a little bit more cashflow. I just have a, just a little bit more cashflow and I have been very specific with its use. Buy an allocated bourbon. No, [00:28:00] by, by, by improving a savings account, like specifically a target I'm trying to hit.

So I guess it's no different than that, Kristen. It

Kristen Ahlenius: sounds very similar to me. The next dollar. But you've

Damian Dunn: been very conscious about that, too. It's not something that you're passively doing. You're being very strategic and active about taking advantage of those, those little wins, those little variations in your

Peter Dunn: income.

Yeah, absolutely. Before we go to the break here, I have to say there's nothing better. If you've never experienced it, the getting addicted to watching your savings account balance go up like, like. Logging in a lot to see it go up. So much so that you'll put it, you'll make a transfer just to watch it go.

. Alright, coming up after the break. Do young people struggle to save and invest? We'll find out next on the pizza The Planter Show. Pete the Planter. I do that. That's, I, I go in, I'll, I'll put like 25. I'll, I'll have like, I'll, I'll, I'll get it to round amounts, you know, it's [00:29:00] like whatever. 77. I'm like, here goes 23 bucks my pajama.

It goes in Feel great.

Kristen Ahlenius: That's so relatable because I'm about to hit a milestone that I've been waiting on in one of my accounts and every day I log in and I'm like,

Peter Dunn: getting closer. Just transfer money, Kristen. I don't know. I'm a financial expert. Just transfer it. No, no,

Kristen Ahlenius: no, no, no. We have goals. There's strategy.

It'll get there.

Peter Dunn: Aren't there some rules, Dame, next year about Venmo? Like, you gotta report all your Ven So, I was sneaking in some Venmo transactions this week buying bourbon for people down in Kentucky. I feel like, am I gonna get flagged by the

Damian Dunn: I think they actually just announced that they're going to push that off for another year.


Peter Dunn: Jeez.

I'll say this, I plopped those bottles down in front of Chad yesterday when I got back to the office and I've never seen a happier man. I can imagine. He

Damian Dunn: was so excited. Lots of rye?

Peter Dunn: No, I'm the rye guy, he's the bourbon, but I'll say this, I feel like his wife might [00:30:00] be very angry at me at this point because I really, I was, it was bad peer pressure.

Yeah, I can turn this into evil. You know what I mean? Oh, I know. Oh, I know. My stomach's growling. You guys want to hear it? I'm like, no. Oh, okay. Never mind. Let's keep it moving. Anybody any keep it moving.

Damian Dunn: You've got a hard out beat. Okay.

Peter Dunn: 321 back on the pizza planner show. You know, there's this idea.

That it is harder for young, younger people, younger than me, which is not hard, young people, young generations to save and budget money. So, is this a perception? Is this a reality? Kristen apparently has a big spicy hot take on this as to why it is harder for the younger generations to save and budget money.

As a point of reference, Kristen, are you a younger? [00:31:00]

Kristen Ahlenius: Then the two of you,

Peter Dunn: yes. No, I mean, no, but I mean, as we're looking, it's like, the younger generations, like, where are you going? I mean, yeah, you're younger.

Kristen Ahlenius: I, I would say, yeah, I mean, I'm a young millennial, so we're often the ones that people blame.

Peter Dunn: Blame?

What's the, who's blaming anyone?

Kristen Ahlenius: Like, when you see headlines, when you see headlines about millennials this, millennials that, it's me. That,

Peter Dunn: that was a thing for, like, millennials. For a long time. It was like, pre COVID, everything was millennials fault. Yes. It was great. What do we call the youngs now? Like, were they Gen Z?

Gen Z. Yeah. And are they getting blamed for stuff too?

Kristen Ahlenius: I think the millennials blame Gen Z for stuff. I think that's just the nature of how this goes. It all

Damian Dunn: rolls downhill,

Peter Dunn: Pete. Yeah. The older I get, the more, the less likely I should say, I feel like I'm blaming anyone for anything. I'm just like trying to deal with my own stuff.

But I do [00:32:00] remember being in my 30s just wanting to blame all the 20s. Yeah.

Damian Dunn: There was a nice little trend on Tiktok for a while about why you shouldn't mess with Gen X people because of how they were raised and how it has completely changed since that generation.

Peter Dunn: All right. So, Kristen, what's your spicy hot take about the youngs?

Kristen Ahlenius: Come on, don't set me up to fail like that. I don't have a super spicy hot take. I just think that by the nature of the way that we structure or ideally we would structure a financial life, I think I don't want to speak for the two of you, but I want to kind of establish a baseline, which is that our goal is to improve our financial stability and our financial confidence.

over the course of our financial lives. There might be some ebbs and flows, but like it should be, we're climbing, right?

Peter Dunn: You're saying our, are you, are you talking about an hour as in the three headed monster here? We're talking about hours. You're representing the youngs. What is that? No, as

Kristen Ahlenius: in, as individual people, like our goal for people is as they age to have more financial [00:33:00] stability and more financial confidence.

And for that to continue to climb and climb. Yes. Yes, for sure. Okay. So I would also venture to, or I would also say that we live in a society that more than ever you can pay for convenience and you can pay for things that make your daily life easier. It's more common than ever to have someone to come in and maybe like clean your home, door dash, like, I mean, you, you name it, but the conveniences of life are more than they've ever been.


Peter Dunn: Yes. For sure. Okay.

Kristen Ahlenius: So my thought is that something that may feel like a disconnect generationally is that if the two of you think about your financial stability and confidence 10 years ago, 15 years ago, I won't call out your ages. It would have been, if we think about financial stability and confidence, it would have been more difficult for you to pay for the conveniences of [00:34:00] the world that we are living in that do make your lives easier just because you hadn't yet build that, built that stability and confidence.

Is that fair?

Peter Dunn: That was the last faux show. I mean, this is like. You didn't have robots to pay back then. No, no, no,

Kristen Ahlenius: but I'm just saying that me naturally living, oh my, me being younger than the two of you, it is just expected that my stability and confidence is less. And because I've just not had as many years to flex that muscle to work on that.

It takes time. We talk about that on the show all the time, how important it is to invest early, invest aggressively, start with good financial habits. And so if we're thinking about like, just say like me versus the two of you, it would just be expected that there wouldn't be as much available for me when it comes to like, again, we'll talk about the convenience of life.

And I think those things are what gets people in a lot of trouble when it comes to budgeting and saving.

Damian Dunn: So are we saying that the [00:35:00] youngs are just going to be a bunch of financial late bloomers?

Kristen Ahlenius: I don't know what the result of that is. I'm just saying that, like, why is it harder to save money? And I think that it's not super easy to have empathy for that if you're someone who is more stable and more confident when it comes to your personal finances than someone who is just naturally less so.

Probably not by any fault of their own. They're just younger.

Peter Dunn: Well, a couple thoughts. Number one, I, I don't feel accusatory towards the youngs about this. Like, I don't, I'm not weighing in as they don't save money. I don't feel one way or the other about that. So I would also, I'm trying to understand what you're saying here.

Are you saying that The youngs employ convenience more frequently than the

Kristen Ahlenius: olds. Yes, and I think that the youngs by nature are less likely to be able to objectively afford to do that.

Peter Dunn: Yeah, I agree with that. Dan?

Damian Dunn: Pete, do you [00:36:00] remember going over to Grandpa and Grandma's house when you were like five, six years old?

Mm hmm. There was probably one car in the driveway. There was probably one Silver station wagon. One TV, console TV in the house, I'm guessing.

Peter Dunn: Yeah, it was in the Four

Damian Dunn: Seasons room. Console, record stereo, record player slash stereo, perhaps?

Peter Dunn: Radio to listen to, Billy Graham.

Damian Dunn: Billy Graham, okay. Yeah, that'll work.

Probably a, a very a maybe a two bedroom house. One bedroom, one bath, two bedroom, one and

Peter Dunn: a half bath. It, it was small. Yeah. There was eight. There was eight kids there. But yeah, there was not a

Damian Dunn: lot of bedrooms. Living a middle class life. Yeah, yeah. I think about how much that has changed, how much we have complicated things and what is considered standard operating procedure for us at our point in life.

And I've I've said frequently that one of the biggest challenges people graduating from college have is not trying to. Step right into the lifestyle that [00:37:00] their parents that they grew up with with their parents because they cannot afford it and they don't know any other way because that's all they've known.

So they can't go back and just live in a two bedroom, one bath house with very limited technology or whatever it is because we've just Decided that all of this is standard operating procedure, and it has to be part of our life, and it is expensive, and it is going to be very, very hard to be able to try and cordon off cash out of your income when you've got student loans, you've got a million different payments and tons of subscriptions, the deck is stacked against you socially.

Now, I'm not saying you can't do this, but socially, the expectations are you're going to have all of these things, and it is nearly impossible to pull it off. You have to stand against the crowd to be able to get ahead right now.

Peter Dunn: So old guy, take alert, by the way. Search. Oh, that's [00:38:00] the alert siren,

Damian Dunn: an old tired siren.

Peter Dunn: I feel as though the downfall to this direction started with the show MTV Cribs because the second influential people or popular or appealing people showed you what they have and what they're doing. Then. That led to this social media wanting, right? It led to influencers saying, look what I have and you can have it too.

And I think that sort of sent consumerism off kilter. I say that observationally, not judgmentally. Like, what I'm not saying is, that's dumb. I'm not saying that. I don't, again, I don't really care. I don't feel that way. But I am saying that observationally, I do believe that is what has happened. And I see it with my My own young teens of the things they want and how they are influenced by the media [00:39:00] they consume.

Kristen Ahlenius: Yeah, I think both things can be true. I think it can be harder than it's ever been to save money because of the type of world we live in, but we can also be better stewards of our own dollar. So I think leaning into being a little bit more aware is something that we collectively need to do a better job of.

Damian Dunn: I think I'm just going to

Peter Dunn: be Amish. Can you just choose to be Amish? That's a fair question. Can you join? That's a great question. I know there's been like shows where like, I think Coolio at one point went and lived in Amish lifestyle or something. May he rest in peace. Yes. I don't know if that's something you choose.

Anyway, let's do this. Let's everyone calm down. We're going to take a break. We're going to come back. Biggest waste of money of the week. Here's what we're going to find out. Did Kristen get bit by some spider that caused her illness? But as a side effect of that illness, illness, she's now a good guesser at Blum.

I don't know. I doubt it. We'll find out. That's next right here on the Pete the Planner Show. I'm Pete the Planner. [00:40:00] What if you're like good at this now? Good piecing.

Damian Dunn: It would be a documentary in the works if that if that is actually what

Kristen Ahlenius: happens that I appreciated Stacey being a bad guess or two that made me happy

Peter Dunn: Yeah, she was a terrible guess or two she

Kristen Ahlenius: was love Stacy, sorry

Peter Dunn: See, you know, the TV thing was interesting day and you're going to one TV and all that I think I don't, I don't disagree with you, but I think a different perspective.

There is a couple things. Number one, as a 46-year-old with a couple, I got a bazillion TVs in my house, right? Mm-Hmm. . I would argue that a young, like one of the Youngs that works with us, they probably have one if no TVs.

Damian Dunn: Oh, well, I mean, I

Peter Dunn: mean samples. Do you think Ellie has,

Damian Dunn: do you think Ellie has sample lies there?

I mean, no, but I'm just saying, yeah, I don't know.

Peter Dunn: I don't know. Hey, all the Youngs that. We work with they're listening [00:41:00] to the show right now as part of your job requirements No, I mean, we have a little slack. It's in slack. How many TVs do you have in your house the youngs? What Kristen's got to

Kristen Ahlenius: but I have a like I have an entertainment area in my basement.

So that's why what

Damian Dunn: is it? She has a bigger TV than I do.

Peter Dunn: I think if someone In, in Slack, one of our youngs like hits us up and they're like, Oh, I've got one. I'm like, Oh, no, no, no. You're not young enough. I wasn't talking about you.

Damian Dunn: It turns into an HR event. Really? I know it always does.

Peter Dunn: It always does. It's there's no irony lost in the fact that I'm in front of HR Departments for a living now. Caitlin coming over the top with four. Did you live in a bar?

Damian Dunn: Did you tell them what channel to put that into?

Peter Dunn: No I didn't. If you're watching random slack channel, random slack channel

Damian Dunn: Of course it just could mean that they're working, ignoring us.

Yeah, which is [00:42:00]

Peter Dunn: Jameson! Jameson? What the heck's going on down in Texas? Nine TVs! I'm trying to think what we have.

Kristen Ahlenius: Sounded very judgmental until he realized he had to count

Peter Dunn: four and one of them is in like the workout area. And so like we, we use three, Oh, they're coming in. Oh, they're also asking if they count as young. This is a backfire.

Damian Dunn: That's all right. If you, if you're listening, go ahead and put it in there.

Peter Dunn: Three is the popular answer right now.

Okay, let's move on. We got to, we got to do some things. I gotta get ready for that, and then I gotta go. Sorry, Jeremiah. tHis week's biggest waste of money with the New Beginnings Eas Okay, sorry. Yeah, so you haven't

Damian Dunn: started.

Kristen Ahlenius: I was like, we didn't have to start at the same time. I

Peter Dunn: know, I was, it was a plant joke.

It was a plant joke.

Damian Dunn: Oh, oh yeah, New Beginnings. Sorry,

Peter Dunn: I forgot. New

Kristen Ahlenius: Beginnings.

Peter Dunn: That was funny. I know, except I had to explain the jokes and I went, Oh, my [00:43:00] standup thing is high. It's happening. It's December 22nd. The bill continues to, to grow. Joey Molinaro sort of social media impressionist does a lot of sports impressions has a lot of notoriety.

There is on the bill, some other folks. So a ticket's still available at victory field. We, the show starts at 8 PM, December 22nd. I'm hosting. So that means I'm going to have some bits. I was trying out some of my bits, comedy bits, if you will, with Mrs. Planner

Damian Dunn: doesn't seem like a great,

Peter Dunn: you'd think I would have learned over the last 20 some years she, at one point she was like, so what part of it, of what you just said is, is the joke that was like, okay, let me have a workshop.

This was somebody else.

Damian Dunn: Is Danny the headliner? Is he the official? I don't know. I

Peter Dunn: haven't talked to him in a while, so I gotta, I gotta call him this weekend. He's on LA time. So he's always like calling me. He's like, like the weird times. And I'm like, I'm being a father [00:44:00] right now, or I'm working. All right, we got to get going.

Three, two, one. This week's biggest waste of money of the week right here on the Pete, the planner show is the London sock company, the goat set paying homage. Timeout. Can I get time out? Granted, granted,

Damian Dunn: my fault,

Peter Dunn: granted. Do you go homage? You don't go homage, right? How about homage? Such fancy man paying homage to boxing legend, Muhammad Ali, the London sock company, the goat will give you the confidence to knock out the work day.

The limited edition set includes three pairs of socks featuring the greatest iconic silhouette stitched in [00:45:00] gold, finely knitted and hand finished. The brand's signature stretch fit cotton blend will have your feet floating like a butterfly while their sharp appearance keeps your style a stinging like a bee.

I actually appreciate the copy. Okay. So for those that we're talking dress socks, there's three pairs of dress socks. They've got like the Muhammad Ali arms raised sort of. Silhouette thing and I'm thinking to myself a I hope this is like officially licensed I hope the the estate of Muhammad Ali is yeah getting part of this But there are three pairs of dress socks that have Muhammad Ali stitched on the top of the dress sock So Kristen, how much do you think this costs

Kristen Ahlenius: 10 is too much for these in my opinion But I'm guessing Assuming they're licensed, that they are 65

Peter Dunn: a game.

[00:46:00] Dame, how do you want to, you can, you know, you can say a different number. You can just take her number. What are you going to do?

Damian Dunn: I'm really conflicted, multiple fronts now, because I was going to say 70. And that's really close to what Kristen says, which means if we're both wrong wildly means I'm a horrible guesser this week.

So I will, I'll, I'll go ahead and do the standard rule. Basically, at least double whatever Kristen says, and I'll say 130.

Peter Dunn: What if I told you that these cost 72? You blew it. You absolutely blew it.

Kristen Ahlenius: You talked yourself right out of that one, man.

Peter Dunn: That would have been the greatest snake job of all time.

I was right on

Damian Dunn: the money. And I,

Peter Dunn: I'm so disappointed in you. Your whole family is disappointed in

Kristen Ahlenius: you. It was Price is Right rules. You should have just said 66.

Peter Dunn: Kristen, there's something you and I were going to have to talk about off the air anyway, so we might as well talk about it [00:47:00] now. Oh, okay. When Dane was telling his story during the cold open and he referred to Krav Maga as just Krav.

Yes. Did that throw you for a second?

Kristen Ahlenius: It did for just a brief moment because I'm not a part of such an exclusive club. And I was like, wait, what? And then I realized who was talking and yeah, we're

Peter Dunn: good. Is Krav an acceptable shortening of Krav Maga?

Damian Dunn: Is in our group. I won't speak for the rest of the, the, the groups that meet, but it isn't our group,

Peter Dunn: your Krav Maga skills gotten, I mean, could you, I, we, Oh, we are on the radio right now.

I forgot. So let me just ask this quick question. We'll go on to financial things. Like, are you, are you better able to just bludgeon a person now? Like where, where are you at in

Damian Dunn: your journey? They're a little rusty. I'm basically on a treadmill at this point with that, but I, I need to start picking it back up and learning new ways to incapacitate people.


Peter Dunn: thought you were going to say, well, mess around and find out. I thought that's what you were going to

Damian Dunn: say. I mean, I am going to be in office next week. We can, we can give it a run if you want.

Peter Dunn: Dame what's in the news this week?

Damian Dunn: CVS is [00:48:00] overhauling how it prices prescription drugs and an announcement the company promised that its new model would be more transparent than the current setup, which prices drugs based on a complex reimbursement formula that can cost make the cost of prescriptions confusing for consumers.

Go figure. The new model called CVS Cost Vantage, so catchy, is based on a simple equation. Drugs will cost what CVS pays for them, plus a limited markup and a flat fee to cover the services of fulfilling the prescriptions. That's similar to a plan proposed by billionaire Mark Cuban, founder of Cost Plus Drugs, to bring accountability to drug pricing in the U.

S. No word on when the will take effect.

Peter Dunn: Kristen, do you know what CVS stands for?

Kristen Ahlenius: I don't know what CVS stands for.

Damian Dunn: Dame? Convenience, value, and something, I, am I close?

Peter Dunn: Kind of. Consumer value store. Okay. What is your favorite drug store? [00:49:00] Rite Aid. Because of financially how well you've done with it?

Correct, yeah. hoW about like, the in store experience? Oh, Walgreens. Walgreens CVS. I don't like Walgreens. I mean, Oh wait, we love Walgreens here. So if considering financial wellness solutions, I don't listen. What else is in the news?

Damian Dunn: You want a tax story? Yeah, of course you want a tax story in america.

Two things are certain taxes and people going to court to pay less of them The supreme court heard arguments this week in more versus u. s One of the most important tax cases in recent history and pete, you know We keep track of all the important tax cases in u. s history here Lawsuit which could cost the US trillions of dollars in revenue would invalidate big swaths of the current tax system and doom the possibility of a billionaire tax.

And it all hinges on a couple [00:50:00] suing the US over $14,729 and 28 due to changes to the tax law implemented that year. Charles and Kathleen Moore paid nearly 15,000 as a one-time repatriation tax on profits held overseas. And now the moors are suing the federal government, claiming they didn't receive any profit from their investment and therefore can't be taxed to lower courts have ruled against them.

However, now the Supreme Court will decide the fate of the U. S. Tax code as we know it, based on what exactly counts as income, specifically whether or not income has to be realized to be taxed under the 16th Amendment. While the moors I'm almost finished. Hold on. While the moors contend that they they paid, the tax they paid was unconstitutional.

A lot of longstanding basic business tax rules would get swept away if they triumph. So many, in fact, the former Republican Speaker of the House, Paul Ryan, who helped write the 2017 tax law being challenged, said that if the moors win, It would effectively eliminate one third of the tax code experts [00:51:00] worry beyond up ending the system and costing the U.

S. Tax dollars. A decision in favor of the moors would also open the government to more litigation and cost them the U. S. Up to 340 billion in tax revenue over the next decade. Over in the West Wing, President Biden favors a so called billionaires minimum tax to help lessen the federal deficit. But if SCOTUS rules for the moors, right?

Any proposed tax on unrealized capital gains, which are investments that make billionaires billionaires would be impossible looking ahead. The court will deliver the decision this summer, you know, right as the presidential election is heating up, there could be major changes in U. S. Tax code coming very soon.

Peter Dunn: Wow. My only thought there is I saw the billionaire tax proposal thing. Mm-Hmm. last week, earlier this week. Yeah. I, I, I don't, I'm, I, I, I don't really care about that . Like, I don't, I, I don't, I'm not a billionaire or even close but I also seem, it just seems a little weird if like, [00:52:00] there's just like a billionaire tax.

Like, that just seems strange to me. But I, I, I don't feel adamant about that. I just, it's just a, it's a simple feeling.

Kristen Ahlenius: Can I say something? No. Okay.

Peter Dunn: Yeah, go ahead. Please

Kristen Ahlenius: do. Could we just, maybe this is too simplistic and maybe the bar is just too high, but could we just like catch up on the backlog of tax returns?

Could we just like start there or seems

Damian Dunn: unlikely. I mean, we did hire they did hire 80, 000 new employees in the IRS and supposedly that was one of the big reasons was to get caught up. But

Peter Dunn: I thought that was struck down and like the budget negotiations.

Damian Dunn: No, I think they got think they got their hires. I think

Peter Dunn: I disagree.

I mean, look. I'm usually wrong. I think we all know this, but I think that got cut lovely

Damian Dunn: Mrs. Advice. If you were listening, go ahead and send me whether or not that made it through because she would be the definitive resource on

Peter Dunn: this answer. Sometimes I feel bad about myself. There's like what I am and what I've become, which is often I [00:53:00] think about the fact that Mrs.

Advice. Advice, your wife listens to the show and it makes me feel better about myself. . I find her to be a really substantive person and the idea that she listens, whether it's to load up on ammunition to mock you later, or she finds entertainment or value in the show, makes me feel good.

Damian Dunn: Well then I won't tell you that she doesn't listen very

Peter Dunn: often.

Exactly. That's what I, that's why I feel the way I feel. Alright. Very good. Enough of this. Everyone, good luck with your lives. Wait, that's a little macabre. It's very final. Thanks for listening. Seeing good vibes, good vibes are all that's in the budget. I'm Pete the Planner. This is Pete the Planner Show.

I am known to tell people good luck with your lives when I just simply say goodbye to them in real life. And it is jarring at first because it makes it seem as though it is a final saying. But it could be. That's the point. Hey, good luck with everything. You know, it's practical. [00:54:00] Yeah.

Damian Dunn: Yeah. You never know that last, that

Peter Dunn: last.

Okay. Here's the thing. I'm going to randomly die someday. It'll be great. Right. So I'll be dead randomly. I mean, I mean, I don't know how I'll be dead. Okay. So I'll be dead. What,

Damian Dunn: know how you're gonna die.

Peter Dunn: Sure. It's all in the plan. So I'll be dad and someone will say, oh my God, what? Do you remember the last thing he said to you?

Good luck with your, and like, everyone in my life will be like, yeah. He said, good luck with your life. Like, and it's like, what a legacy

Damian Dunn: is that gonna be on your tombstone? Good luck with your life. Good luck with your life.

Peter Dunn: It's kind of true. Do you ever think about like, nevermind, I gotta go . Kristen, I'm glad you're not dad.

Thank you. Me too. Damon, I feel that way about you too, but it didn't feel like there was any imminent death threats to you in the last couple of weeks. I understand. So I'm glad you're not dead. Everyone else, good luck with your lives and stay getting money.