June 21, 2024

More allegations surface against prominent financial advisor

In this week's episode, Kristen, Dame, and Pete discuss new fraud allegations against Alexander Joyce, CEO of Rejoyce Financial LLC. You can read the most recent court filing here. If you believe you've been the vicim of financial fraud, contact your state's Secretary of State's office. All matters discussed on this show are allegations at this point, and the justice system will determine guilt/liability.

Episode Transcript

Peter Dunn: [00:00:00] Okay, , Monday morning to start your work week, you, you wake up, your eyes find light. That was like we're meditating, let your eyes find the light. What is the first sensation or feeling or image that you saw that started your week? Monday morning, start the work week, open the eyes. What's your first realization that you were alive and well, anything?

Kristen Ahlenius: Probably my dog staring down at me, wondering where his breakfast was.

Peter Dunn: Very fair. Day. Monday morning. Whatever time this is, eyes open. You have an awareness about you back during the pandemic. The awareness was, Oh my God, you know, remember spring of 2020. What was it this past Monday? It was a cat this past Monday.

A cat. So, so far animal centric. Yeah.

Kristen Ahlenius: Yeah.

Peter Dunn: What if I told you

Kristen Ahlenius: that

Peter Dunn: when my alarm went off and I reached over, you, we all feel our alarm. We don't actually look at our alarm. You feel it. You know what the button is and you silence it or [00:01:00] whatever. My eyes, I'm sort of awakened. I feel something weird. I feel something weird as I open my eye.

Something is skittering up my face. I opened my eye to the silhouette of a wolf spider over my eye on Monday morning, I flung it off. I shot up, ripped off the covers. It like hit the wall next to me. And with all the care of PETA, the planner, I smashed the ever living legs out of that thing. And it just, it was a, my biggest nightmare since watching the Brady bunch Hawaii episode, when Peter Brady had the tarantula crawling on his chest.

B I do not like spiders and C it really started my week off in a terrible, terrible eight feet.

Damian Dunn: Did

Peter Dunn: you

Damian Dunn: hear nicely done? Did you hear the spider hit the wall as it was a big enough to hear it hit the wall? That's an amazing

Peter Dunn: question What I will note to to Dan's this [00:02:00] point. I later that afternoon went and burnt down my house so Dame it was terrible.

And so like I didn't tell anyone about my feet in my family about it cuz I was so shaken And then later that night, cause I had not picked up the spider corpse yet. I went and showed them where the spider corpse was. And they were freaking out and then they're like, Oh, there's spiders in my bed. I'm like, probably cause this place is a nightmare.

Hello everyone. And welcome to the financial show. That is the Pete, the planner show. Kristen, welcome back from the TO.

Kristen Ahlenius: Hello. I'm glad to be here.

Peter Dunn: Is that Dame? Is that what people say when they're not glad to be here? Wasn't that right? Very similar. Yes. Yes. Damn. How are you? I'm wonderful. How are you? A bit.


Damian Dunn: the birds back?

Peter Dunn: Yes.

Damian Dunn: So, so here, so here's the thing. I might have evicted birds earlier this morning because they were loud, [00:03:00] louder than this. And so what happened is I take the corner, remember everybody I live in a pole barn, sorry I work in a pole barn. That's different.

Kristen Ahlenius: Whatever. He lives in a barn dominium actually.

And so

Damian Dunn: I took, I wouldn't be opposed to that, took the corner off of the siding. And there was only one little bird in there and it flew down to the ground. It wasn't, didn't have enough feathers to actually fly away, but it kind of made it down to the ground into some brush. And so now I have mama bird on the brush calling for the baby bird.

And that's what you hear right now is some panic, some, some familial panic going on outside.

Kristen Ahlenius: You didn't evict them. You just relocated them closer to the ground. They're still residents.

Peter Dunn: Kristen, I don't know enough about nature, but do you think one of those birds could watch over my face at night and get the spiders off of me?

Probably. Okay. Man, this show is going to be wild today. I'm just telling you. I'm telling you.

Damian Dunn: I'm going to go. I'm going to go chase them off. [00:04:00] Hang on for one second. Can

Peter Dunn: you leave

Damian Dunn: your mic open, please? Yeah.

Peter Dunn: Okay. Hang on. I'll even for those listening on the podcast. Dame is taking off his ear monitors.

He is getting up from his seat. He's not wearing pants. No, he he might be wearing pants. Here you go. Listen,

Kristen Ahlenius: I feel like he needs pet ducks.

That was amazing.

Peter Dunn: The birds speak English.

Kristen Ahlenius: They might.

Peter Dunn: Well, they're like, no. All right. Kristen, this show I had so much, it's been a couple of weeks because we took last week off. We got a massive Alexander Joyce update today.

Kristen Ahlenius: We did a

Peter Dunn: massive Alexander Joyce update today.

Kristen Ahlenius: I mean,

Peter Dunn: truly massive. So we're going to spend probably a couple segments on that.

Kristen Ahlenius: Probably.

Peter Dunn: We also got an incredible email about possibly a woman holding her grandkids or her kids [00:05:00] hostage from her mother unless her mother pays her 150, 000. You guys, you guys,

Damian Dunn: we almost had a guest star on the show. I went out to chase him out and, I mean, you heard that? Yeah. And the little bird started to come out of the brush and sat on a branch like this far away and I reached down to get him and then he fell back down into the brush but I was gonna pick him up, bring him in.

We were gonna have a little, little guest star. Dan, that's how you get bird flu.

Peter Dunn: I know a lot about animals. Dave, how about all of the Hoosiers making their way to a Olympic team this week with swimming in Central Indiana Swim City USA. I just want to proudly note that my brother in law Chris Plum is the head of Carmel Swimming and Successfully gotten a couple few people in the Olympics.

These last couple of Olympics. He's getting some FaceTime on the on the broadcast too. It's kind of a big deal. Kind of a big deal. Married my sister. Why I I'm just kidding. I'm just [00:06:00] okay. At major Alexander Joyce updates this week, major shocking. Kristen's gone. Just like that made wonder if her personal attorney was like, when they start talking about the Alexander Joyce accusations, just hang up your connection, technical problems.

Boy oh boy, again dama as you were coming back on the air after main almost handling a baby bird I also mentioned that the email about a woman holding her kids hostage from her mother unless the mother gives her 150 000

And I would like to note, and even though Kristen's not here to say it because she didn't pay her internet bill or Big Lots, my, my choice of biggest loser on the stock pick extravaganza for 2024 Yeah. is tanking aggressively. Son of a gun. Tanking. I got it in the sevens. Kristen says StreamYard which is what we use [00:07:00] to, to, says it will not let her back in.

That's not let her back in. I don't even know what that means. He's going to have to restart a computer. All right. Well, everyone on the podcast, this is what happens. When Kristen takes PTO, her computers takes PTO as well. Dane, we're just going to have to start the show because we can't have people wait around for this.


Damian Dunn: don't think we have much of a choice

Peter Dunn: here. Okay.

Damian Dunn: All

Peter Dunn: right. Let me set the timer. We are starting. Dane, can you make sure that we keep the tone with Alexander Joyce stuff in the right mindset and that we say the proper amounts of Allegedly. Allegedly. That's what I was going for you. Alright.

It's just StreamYard that kicked her out. I don't know what to tell her. I mean, let's maybe send her a new link. Can you get her? I mean, it's the same link. I mean, it's the same link, but [00:08:00] I'll see what that does.

That's weird. Did we boot her? Try a

Damian Dunn: different, try a different browser. Yeah. I don't think she's listening. She should. We're top 1 percent show.

Peter Dunn: I almost spelled browser wrong. There we go. Okay. We're starting. Okay. Here we go. In three, two, this week on the Pete, the planner show, we answer your money questions.

Here's how the show works. You email us. Ask Pete at Pete, the planner. com that's asked Pete at Pete, the planner. com. And here's what happens. I mean, sometimes we read your question on the air. Sometimes we don't. And sometimes when there's a financial story in the media, we dedicate most of the show to that.

And that's what we're doing today. Joining me as always is Damien Dunn. Hello. Hello. And Kristen Alanius, who was just kicked off the internet. We'll be joining us here shortly. Fingers crossed. Okay, Dame. So as you know, oddly, Central Indiana [00:09:00] has become the epicenter of financial fraud and malfeasance amongst financial advisors in the last two decades.

And one of the hottest stories in the financial world happens to be right here in Hamilton County, Indiana. And it revolves around a gentleman by the name of Alexander Joyce, who was the CEO of Rejoice Financial. He has had a tremendous amount of legal trouble. Most personal and professional we detailed the professional challenges on the air Several weeks ago and there are now new allegations that we are going to cover here on the show Kristen makes it back to the internet.

Hello krista. Okay, so Is your mic on?

Damian Dunn: Dame does that sound quiet to you? Yes, but remember sometimes it builds. Oh, that's right a few seconds. So Kristen's Kristen's Chris,

Peter Dunn: so Dame the latest allegations against Alexander Joyce and rejoice financial suggests that he has misappropriated [00:10:00] taken roughly 213, 000.

And he, by the lawsuit and the evidence that has already been presented in the lawsuit or the filings, he has allegedly created an investment contract from scratch That kind of looks like an annuity contract. And in my opinion, if this, if this document is accurate, this is one of the most brazen things I've ever seen.

Dame it's, it's strange to see paperwork that if proven true really is the blueprint for fraud.

Damian Dunn: Oh yeah. I, if you and I have seen what real. Annuity paperwork looks like. And so this is kind of like what you would say, no, we don't need annuity paperwork kids. We have annuity paperwork at home. I mean, this, this is the.

It's, it's not real paperwork. It [00:11:00] essentially is what it comes up to. And it's easily identifiable by somebody who's been in the industry. However, if you're just somebody who is a little bit nervous about their nest egg that you've worked hard for it, you've got this cash, you want to keep it safe. And so somebody approaches you and says, I got you.

I got exactly what you need. I can't say that I wouldn't have thought any differently than, than this person who signed up for, for this using air quotes, which doesn't work well on the radio, this contract.

Peter Dunn: Kristen, you have never seen an annuity contract but you are a financial expert. When you looked over exhibit a in the court filing, how long did it take for you to realize that this might not be, A real document.

Kristen Ahlenius: Can I expose myself?

Peter Dunn: If you expose yourself louder, because it's still too quiet.

Kristen Ahlenius: [00:12:00] Quiet. I'm having mic issues. I'm still quiet.

Peter Dunn: There it is. It's coming back. What a weird thing.

Kristen Ahlenius: So I, you guys, I don't know, other than reading the financial terms within that I only know because I'm a financial expert, the presentation of the contract itself wasn't.

That glaring to me.

Peter Dunn: Okay, fair. So Daniel, let's let's talk about what were red flags for you and me. Number one, sorry, everybody there, this is purported to be an investment or annuity contract. There's no issuing body. There is no. This is with this insurance company your first fidelity life of cleveland It is literally the only reference to any organization Other than there's a section that I think talks about taxes in the irs is in itself rejoiced financial So this would suggest that rejoiced financial Is [00:13:00] issuing this contract with, with sort of their guarantees, but they're not an insurance company.

So that should be the very first red flag is that no actual insurance company that has a rating. And requirements by law even

Damian Dunn: exists within this contract to be fair. It's, it's been a minute since I've read the actual complaint and I don't remember if the, the client said that they were under the assumption they were with another insurance company, or was this a product that rejoice financial was selling on their own behalf, posing it as an annuity.

I don't remember that.

Peter Dunn: Well, the fact that they use the, the term surrender charges and there are 0 percent surrender charges through the life of this contract. So for people who don't understand annuities, if you buy an annuity, typically if you try to cash it in or turn it, or you take withdrawals.

You were subject to what are called surrender charges. There's an amount you can take out each year. It's usually around 10 percent [00:14:00] prior to these surrender charges kicking in. So if you've got a million dollars in the contract and you've got a 6 percent surrender charge, that's 60, 000 penalty that you'd have to pay.

Now, Dame, I did mention this to you before I went to air today. A family friend passed away, an elderly gentleman, and I was reviewing that annuity contract this week on behalf of his family. And it had a 16 year surrender charges, meaning that for 16 years, you couldn't take the entirety of the contract out and you would have to pay a penalty.

This one issued in 2017, allegedly by Rejoice Financial had 0 percent surrender charges and Dame. A guaranteed interest rate in 2017 of 10 percent for 10 years.

Damian Dunn: Yeah.

Peter Dunn: I mean, that's that's unheard of Pete. That's what a deal. Kristen, can you do me a favor? You have you're on the internets here.

Kristen Ahlenius: I am on the [00:15:00] internet, but apparently that's.

To be, that's, that's subject to question at this point.

Peter Dunn: Could you find out just quick, quick search. Okay. What the interest rates were in 2017 in fact, March of 2017, what was sort of the, the, the going fed rate? Because oftentimes annuities go within lock up, just like your money market account, which might be earning close to 5%.

Right now it's because the fed rate is so high. So Dame, the, the red flags for me are, this is not issued by any other company other than. allegedly rejoiced financ two, there's zero surrei It listed as 10 years, but then it says it's 0 percent for the entire 10 years, which doesn't make sense. And it's a guaranteed 10%.

There's some other language within the contract or paperwork. I think it's being called an agreement. That that [00:16:00] also makes you think twice here. Let's start with tax referral tax referral. This is in the this is in the paperwork that is exhibit a in this lawsuit against rejoice financial refers to instances where a taxpayer can delay paying taxes to some future period.

In theory, the net taxes paid should be the same. Taxes can sometimes be deferred indefinitely, or may be taxed at a lower rate in the future, particularly for deferral of income taxes. It is a general fact of taxation that when taxpayers can choose when to pay taxes, the total amount of paid in tax will likely be lower.

Dave, no contract would ever, ever, ever. Have that paragraph.

Damian Dunn: I mean, we could go through this line by line and say, you'll never see this in a real annuity contract. You'll never see this in a real annuity contract because this stuff just doesn't exist. It would never get through compliance and it's not part of the general language that would be a [00:17:00] part of the contract that an insurance company would put out.

All right. We've got to take

Peter Dunn: a break. Kristen, did you find it? A friend of the show, John Tor found, he said it was around 4 percent in March of 2017. Are you seeing about the same?

Kristen Ahlenius: Prime perhaps, but the discount rate actually shows that it was a little bit lower than that.

Peter Dunn: Great. Okay. Here's what we're going to do.

Thank you, Kristen. And thank you, John Tor. We're going to take a break and we're going to come back and walk through again, the latest allegations against Alexander Joyce. And we'll do that next right here on the Pete the Planner show. I am Pete the Planner. For those that are wondering why we're doing this including co hosts of this show. I have literally nothing against Alexander Joyce. I've never met him. I don't know. Here's the problem. When people's life savings are allegedly taken via fraud. I find that offensive. I find it deeply offensive as a person in the financial services industry for 25 years, I find it offensive. And so that's why we're talking about, because I don't want this to happen to anyone else, [00:18:00] whether it's who, no matter who's perpetrating the fraud, I just can't see it happen.

Damian Dunn: I agree. I mean, it's not like you and Alexander were out there fighting the same clients and it was a, you know, competitive nature or anything like that. It's, it is literally a situation where people are being taken advantage of. People are being. Allegedly defrauded out of life savings at this point.

And it's someone who is allegedly preying on the the fears of. The general public and taking advantage of them and using it for their own gain at this point. And that cannot stand. And unfortunately, what we both all what we all know is that he's not the only one allegedly not the only one to do this sort of thing.

And it's part of the reason why the financial industry has such a black mara black eye, because it's People like this allegedly exist.

Peter Dunn: Kristen and Dame, also with Kristen, Have you [00:19:00] ever, ever, ever, ever, ever heard of a ten year, ten percent fixed rate guarantee contract?

Kristen Ahlenius: No. Not even close.

Damian Dunn: Dame? Maybe in the 80s, but I'd, even then, ten years for that rate would have been Insane.

Peter Dunn: Okay. We gotta go back to air because I've got so much. All right, here we go. Three, two, back on the Pete, the planner show going over covering the latest allegations against rejoice financial and Alexander Joyce, who's the CEO of rejoice financial previously on the show a couple of months ago. We talked about a 2.

6 million. Alleged fraud that Alexander Joyce perpetrated on a couple in their life savings. And now just this week, new [00:20:00] allegations over 200, 000 misappropriated in what looks like according to exhibit a in the court filing, one of the most brazen made up Photoshop annuity contract that's ever existed.

Allegedly I threw an allegedly Dame and Kristen and I are talking about it. To cover again. These are alleged these are allegations. This will play out in court, and no matter what happens, we will let you know whether he's found liable for these charges. So far from our understanding, there are not criminal charges.

These are civil charges brought about by the complainant. I would also note that Dame at some point in time, once these, it's going to pick up speed, like there's going to be more and more and more of these. One of the reasons that I put this out on our air. A network, Indiana and all of our affiliates and on the top percent, one podcast is because I want [00:21:00] people to have awareness so they can start to make themselves whole because Kristen, imagine this for a second.

You think you've got hundreds of thousands of dollars in an annuity contract. I say that with air quotes that you purchased. This is hypothetical from a rejoice financial, and it doesn't exist because it's not a thing. Can you imagine making financial decisions for a decade or more based on this idea of this money you don't actually have, what would that do to someone's financial life?

Kristen Ahlenius: Oh my word. It could potentially alter the course of their financial reality in an irrevocable way. They might not be able to come back from something like that.

Peter Dunn: Dame, we're looking through the, the exhibit A in this court filing, and I'm just going to read through some of the things that hopefully should be red flagged, but Dame does have a point before we get there.

What is it?

Damian Dunn: Can I draw your attention to the very bottom of the second page? Oh, please do. Okay. I was on the page. Okay. Okay. Underneath the surrender charge. Read that statement.

Peter Dunn: Oh, [00:22:00] Lord. This is a product of Rejoice Financial LLC. Any alteration of this document is strictly prohibited by law. It is a product of Rejoice Financial LLC.

Well, that is a problem. Kristen?

Kristen Ahlenius: Well, that's my whole point is someone who's not familiar with this space is the type of person that's going to become victim of this. Would they, if the person they're getting their financial information from. Is the person who's allegedly committing the fraud. They wouldn't know that an insurance company should be involved in this at all.

Peter Dunn: There is also a highlighted section right before the signature box. It says, if I decide to close or make changes to my account, I will provide notifications to rejoice financial game. That is in my opinion, and what I have seen a highly unusual statement. To exist on a financial contract.

Damian Dunn: Yes. On a contract.

Now, if I'm a client sitting down with my financial advisor and we're [00:23:00] going through the process of figuring things out and, you know, we decided we're going to do business together and I'm going to start transferring money then to accounts, it'll be under their purview. The advisor might say something like, listen, if this ever starts to feel like it's going sideways, come to me and talk to me about this.

I want to make sure that you understand what's going on, that you're comfortable with everything. This, however, if I decide to close or make changes to my account, I will provide notification of Royce Financial. I think that's a step beyond what we would normally expect to be a Potential routine conversation that one could expect in this sort of relationship

Peter Dunn: I'm reading from the exhibit a of the court filing and so here we go first it defines the bonus and it says amended And i'm going to read it due to the length of time it has taken to come to a conclusion Period period rejoice has not agreed to extend a bonus to client This is reflecting [00:24:00] time that gains were not given contractually You In this situation, Rejoice has not granted bonus being first contract year's growth, equaling 10%.

Kristen, you took high school English.

Kristen Ahlenius: What

Peter Dunn: in the world is that?

Kristen Ahlenius: Look, I told you guys chat GPT didn't exist. Then

Peter Dunn: account floor, a floor is often used in retirement planning to keep assets secure and safe from potential market. Losses, but it says loses. Loses.

Kristen Ahlenius: It does say loses.

Peter Dunn: Potential market loses. Oh, you guys, I might get physically sick on the air here.

The floor in this account is 0%, meaning the account holder will never be at risk of losing money. This is a contractual guarantee rate of return. The account holder's account is equal to 10 percent compounded annually. Dame that doesn't [00:25:00] actually make sense. No, not at all. The account holder's account is equal to 10 percent compounded annually.

That's that doesn't mean what It's supposed to mean.

Damian Dunn: No, don't forget about the compounded annually. That's the very important part of not making sense. Actually, none of it makes sense. Safety

Peter Dunn: and preservation of principle along with the floor being zero percent. Rejoice understands along with any significant losses in market temperance.

Account holders principle will stay intact.

Kristen Ahlenius: What is that?

Damian Dunn: You forgot the period after the, along with the floor being 0 percent period and then reading on to, I mean, it's. What is market temperance?

Kristen Ahlenius: That's what I was going to ask. I don't know what market temperance is.

Damian Dunn: You don't know what market temperance is?

Can you, all right,

Peter Dunn: Google it. I'm just kidding. It's a completely made up term. Someone Google it. Market temperance. Can we have not said this yet? Oh my gosh. Temperance. Allegedly. Allegedly there is market [00:26:00] temperance is not a thing. I just Googled it. It, I, that's I at a food market in Ellisville, Indiana.

Temperance Street Market sounds delicious. We are not victim shaming here. Absolutely not. No, we are not victim shaming. We are trying to prevent this from happening to other people. And by the way, I am not an attorney, but if you have purchased investments from the individual we're talking about today, please Seek legal assistance, please, because you don't have the money you think you have, in my opinion.

That might have been too aggressive. Okay. Allegedly. Let's keep it going. My, one of, in the section around growth, there is a paragraph that says, quote, The goal of value funds is to find proverbial diamonds in the rough. Rough. That is companies whose stock prices don't necessarily reflect their fundamental worth.

This is in an investment [00:27:00] contract.

Damian Dunn: Dame, that's not a thing. Yeah, it's a, it's in a textbook. I think I remember reading back in in econ 201 fees amended.

Peter Dunn: This specific account will have no fees. Capital F. Period. No service fee, lowercase F period, as well as any other fees, capital F associated with rejoice contracts and or

Damian Dunn: accounts period.

I know the fees. They're wonderful people. Why, what does he have against the fees? Liquidity

Peter Dunn: actually, let's go to, let's go down to accessibility because this is my favorite one. And I'm reading from exhibit a, and this lawsuit read rejoice is committed to our clients, longevity planning. We understand some things in life are out of our control.

We also believe we should embrace what is [00:28:00] period giving our clients. The ultimate access to what is yours is important. Period. We do ask questions to be sure all of our clients are in line with their retirement needs and wishes. Period. We do ask questions. What does that even mean? How does that pertain?

Is that there? Is that their suitability requirements? Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, probably.

Kristen Ahlenius: Compliance approved it probably.

Peter Dunn: All right. So bottom line is this, we're going to come back with an email question that has nothing to do with this. But this is serious, serious, serious, serious stuff. If you think you're in this situation, please contact an attorney.

You're going to need an attorney. All right. We'll be right back on the Pete, the planner show. I am Pete, the planner, man. I just sound like me

Damian Dunn: this week. The,

Kristen Ahlenius: the lack of understanding on this person's part of even the basic premise of the difference between liquidity and [00:29:00] marketability, is just like shocking as someone who's actually read a textbook before.

I just like,

Peter Dunn: okay, so we're off the air, but I want to read this adding future funds. Account holder has the option at any given time to allocate additional assets toward their account. By doing so, it has to fit within the guidelines of suitability. Potential consultation may be involved when assets are deemed permissible.

They will fall under the same strategy and asset class immediately, giving our clients the benefit of building assets quickly. Dame, they will fall under the same strategy and asset class immediately? What is the asset class?

Damian Dunn: Nobody knows. The one that gives you 10 percent guaranteed.

Kristen Ahlenius: With no fees.

Damian Dunn: With no fees.

And no surrender charge. And

Kristen Ahlenius: a 1, 500 a month benefit.

Peter Dunn: It doesn't prove helpful to [00:30:00] any of us to guess how many people are caught up in this, but it's hundreds.

Damian Dunn: Yeah. Hundreds. I I've thought about that question more than once, and it, it is unsettling to think how many people are Who knows what they're contemplating, right? How are they going to retire? How are they gonna?

How are they gonna tell their spouse that they did this because you know, there are two people in every relationship and Oftentimes one person could care less about the finances. And so they say just go handle that. This is your thing I trust what you're doing and they find this deal and they're like, this is great.

I'm a genius I just happened to you know, this guy's gonna get us through retirement We've always dreamed of And now this, and they're seeing this in the news and they're hearing this on the radio and reading it in the newspaper and their spouse may not [00:31:00] even know, they may be familiar with the story, but they may not know that this is who their life savings was with.

Kristen Ahlenius: That's something I hadn't even considered, Dame, is then, then the personal relationship dynamics of, I did this while I only did this because I thought it was a good idea. Why weren't you involved from the beginning and like the consequences of conversations that didn't happen being so severe.

Damian Dunn: There will be families that are destroyed, torn apart because of not just, not just because people decide to stick it out and they're going to have to figure out how to make things work into retirement because there was lack of communication about financial basics in their lives.

And that's gone now.

Peter Dunn: This, this whole thing's upsetting, but this is just like a really sad turn. You know, again, I was working with a family friend this week on some stuff. Everything was on the up and up. I was just a bad annuity contract. No one got [00:32:00] burned, but it was a bad one. Right? Like 16 percent surrender charge, pardon me.

16%, 16 year surrender charge is significant. Back in the day when I was dealt in annuities in some degrees, a six to eight year. Was pretty okay. Five year was fine. 16 is crazy. So that was one where they maybe bought a product that wasn't ideal. This person bought a contract, but bought what they thought was a product that is just absurd in every capacity.

In my opinion everything we talked about is alleged. We have zero proof. We're reading from public court documents. We want justice to be served. We also, if you're listening to this, cause someone sent it to you, please, here's what you do contact the secretary of state's office. If if you think you're in trouble here, you can go to the secretary of state's website.[00:33:00]

You could go to the department of insurance indiana department of insurance I recommend the secretary of state's office the investment division And then you are probably going to need to retain an attorney and I think dane what's really sad about that is What money is there to actually recover? I mean, if you're, I mean, cause that's where this gets hairy.

If there are hundreds of victims and I, again, I'm just, I don't know this, but if there are hundreds of victims and millions and millions of millions of dollars at stake, and I don't know that either, there's no money, there's no money left over, so what are you actually suing for?

Kristen Ahlenius: And for the 100th time, if you are not impacted by this and you have not looked up the financial professionals that you do business with, now is the time broker check my case, Indiana.

If you're in Indiana, like you have to look them up.

Peter Dunn: Kristen, what an interesting point, because when I was helping the family friend this week deal with that. The, the person who is being pushy [00:34:00] right now in this case. So they're, they have a, they have a insurance person who's being pushy and that's why they wanted my take on it.

I looked up that insurance person. They were sanctioned in 2006 for forgery on an annuity contract for, and they were fined 500 bucks.

Kristen Ahlenius: And they got to keep their license.

Peter Dunn: Yeah, it was right there in broker check.

Kristen Ahlenius: Call me crazy.

Peter Dunn: Crazy.

Kristen Ahlenius: But I feel like Wait,

Peter Dunn: on the air to your face? I normally reserve that for off the air in private.

Kristen Ahlenius: But I feel like that's one of those cases that should bar you from practice.

Damian Dunn: Yeah. Well, that's a little forgery amongst friends.

Kristen Ahlenius: What?

Peter Dunn: Ugh, I'm so uncomfortable. And I just want Last thing.


I literally have nothing against this person. I don't. I don't. And to prove it There are personal things going on in this person's court filings that we're not talking about. Right. I don't have any interest in that. I'm talking about people's financial lives. I have zero interest in all of the other things that are there that have nothing to do with people's financial lives.

And I'm not gonna talk about them on the air.

Damian Dunn: Should should we extend an invitation for this gentleman to come on the show and you could interview him?

Peter Dunn: No, I don't want that. Look, you know the amount of legal fees we're paying already for good things this, this month here at Your Money Line?

Damian Dunn: I'm just,

Peter Dunn: just an idea.

God, that's a terrible idea, but also very appealing.

How is there not more swift legal action happening right now from like a criminal level?

Damian Dunn: I, this is going to take a while to [00:36:00] get through the system. I mean, because it's, and it's not going to be just one judgment. I mean, the more people that come along, I would assume each one will have its own trial going forward.

Kristen Ahlenius: This might be a dumb question. Can these people not come together as a class?

Peter Dunn: I don't know. I mean, I watched Law and Order SVU, so I don't know. Okay, and we're back. Let's do the email. Did I put it in the Slack channel? I hate how I'm on Slack and Slack's popping off. This is such a mistake.

Just pause your notifications. I can't. You can! I can show you how. All right, here we go. I know how to do it in three, two, back on the Pete, the planner show answering your email questions. We got this one this week. Kristin and Dame, can I respectfully recommend. Some some [00:37:00] rules of engagement on this one.

Yes, please.

Kristen Ahlenius: I suppose

Peter Dunn: it's I think it's good. We're going to find it very easy to go fall and to to be shocked and more aggressive than we typically are when we start uncovering the details of this email. Can we just agree to really find as much empathy as we can? You

Damian Dunn: really set us up this week, didn't you?

I did.

Kristen Ahlenius: Yeah.

Peter Dunn: Kristen, do you agree?

Kristen Ahlenius: I'll try.

Peter Dunn: Okay. Dear Pete, I've been a faithful follower of yours for a long time. After 40 years of working in banking, I'm retired in teaching dance. I just want you to timeout. Yeah. I'm a lifelong student of dance. Oh no, I've saved about 500, 000 in my retirement account and have zero debt.

300, 000 home is [00:38:00] free and clear. No car payment from social security and pension. I net four K per month and my needs are small. All right. So let's pause there. Kristen half mil the bank, no, no, no liabilities. 4, 000 a month from social security and a pension living within our means. What are we good so far?

Kristen Ahlenius: This phase of retirement is great. Love this for the emailer.

Peter Dunn: By the way, this person was in banking, not in like education or something, but so far this could be any school teacher. Ever. Ever. At least. Yeah. I mean, really, this is, this is why school teachers can have brilliant retirements. I always find they have about a half million bucks.

They own their homes. They got about 4, 000 a month of income between a state teacher's pension and social security. Like this is literally most teachers retirement.

Damian Dunn: And if you've got two teachers, two former teachers who are married, I mean, they [00:39:00] double that. I mean, that, that's just recipe for a, a really, really solid retirement.

Peter Dunn: I, I, I know I was my idea to read this one on the show, but now I'm just like having second thoughts as I look ahead too late. Alright, back to the email. Here's the rub. There had to be a rub, otherwise they're not emailing us. We are the rub show. I dunno what that means. No experts at rubbing. Wait, nope.

Continuing on. My adult daughter, whom I have financially spoiled for most of her life, does not want the responsibility of a 9 5 job and neither does her husband. They are living the life. Since retiring, I've stopped contributing to their lavish lifestyle. They are bullying me to gift them Gift them at least 150, 000 so they can enjoy expensive vacations, dinners, and more affluent lifestyle.

They are withholding visits to my grandchildren and treating me extremely rudely, not responding to Christmas, birthday, or any family support. They also say that [00:40:00] the 150, 000 might not be enough to let me back into their lives. I'm stuck because I have no other family and would have no one to name in case of emergency.

Can you please give me your opinion on my situation? Man, this is such an uplifting show this week.

Kristen Ahlenius: It really is. These

Peter Dunn: are all, these are all my choices. And for those that don't listen to the podcast, you're hearing this on our radio platform. My Monday started with a wolf spider climbing on my face as I awoke from slumber.

So this is the sort of show you get when arachnids share a bed with me. A marital bed with an arachnid. I don't know what to ask. Okay. Alright. Kristen, do you want to start? Can you, can you gently start? Or if you don't feel like you can gently start, do we need to go to Dame?

Kristen Ahlenius: I

Peter Dunn: Take it easy.

Kristen Ahlenius: I am. I am. I think the place that we get to is not necessarily the place where we [00:41:00] need to apply tons of empathy.

I mean, we're all in agreement that this is not something that the emailer can do.

Peter Dunn: So yeah, just to be clear, You are saying the emailer cannot, under any circumstances, give 150, 000?

Kristen Ahlenius: The emailer, under no circumstances, should give any more significant financial support to the adult child and their spouse.

Peter Dunn: I would, I would, I would stack hands on that, Dan? Yeah, I am in

Damian Dunn: concurrence. Make it so. Some would say market temperance. Yes. Yes.

Kristen Ahlenius: Some would. What?

Peter Dunn: I'm sorry. Yeah. The old don't solve non financial problems with money comes to mind here. One let's, let's, yeah, let's keep it financial, Chris. And that's a really good point.

I can't, I don't believe this [00:42:00] retiree can afford that level of expenditure.

Kristen Ahlenius: Absolutely not.

Peter Dunn: Yeah. I just, even with the, the guaranteed lifetime income of a pension and social security, that was a little aggressive, but they're meant to be guaranteed lifetime incomes. The emergency fund, a half million is the right amount to have.

And I realized they've got three, a 300, 000 home. So I mean, really their net worth's 800, 000. I just, I cannot see a scenario in which parting with 150, 000 under this circumstance or any other, or, or bird control out of Dame's barn. I don't know, Dame 150, 000 would sort of ruin this situation, wouldn't it?

Damian Dunn: I think ruin is not the right word. I think it just furthers the, the issues that are already in play here, because [00:43:00] what's the ultimate end game here? I, they either, they're going to. Get a job now and figure this out and how to make some money for themselves. Because let's just say this, this dear individual passes on everything goes to these children.

Do you think it's going to last very long? No, absolutely not. The, the, the money is going to be gone quicker than they even realize. I had a friend tell me one time that I shook my head and he looked at me and says, you'd be amazed how quickly you can spend a million dollars. He was talking about his own personal lifestyle, Dame rolls with some really fast movers and shakers.

No, I will tell you the, the, the, the continuation or the conclusion of that story off the air. So, oh, ho hoo. Those are my

Peter Dunn: favorites.

Damian Dunn: But this, I mean, I, the part in the email it says I'm stuck because I have no other [00:44:00] family and would have no one to name in a case of an emergency. With what you know, would you want to name these people as somebody to rely on in an emergency?


Peter Dunn: dad always used to say, and I'm not sure why he said this so often, but he said it a lot. And I've probably said on the show, you can pick your nose. You can pick your friends, but you can't pick your family. And I think in this situation, it's to say, there's not a lot you can do here to, to solve the relationship challenge with money. Dame's birds are amazing. They're an amazing backdrop to this financial guidance that we give on a regular basis. Kristen, this is not about money, right?

Kristen Ahlenius: No, unfortunately, this isn't about money at all, and I can't imagine how difficult it would be to be in this position to say no, and then to not be able to have that [00:45:00] relationship with the next generation.

But the reality is they'll see it for what it is eventually as well.

Peter Dunn: Yeah, you know, I don't even want to give guidance here other than simply to say. You can't afford it because it's just not, I, it's like a question that probably shouldn't even have aired on a financial radio show. It's to, to the emailer, please, please understand.

If you've been listening to me for years and we have any sort of sort of virtual relationship, please hold the weight of it here. I'm so, so sorry this is happening to you. I cannot imagine the pain that you feel around this and how alone you feel. It is my opinion. You're not gonna change those feelings with giving into these demands. The spirit of something called friends giving is when people choose who they spend their Thanksgiving with. And sometimes it's their family and sometimes it's not. I think it's that spirit of friends [00:46:00] giving that you have to structure your life and find your community. And. Pick your friends, pick your new family in that regard.

And I, I say that with respect. So it's with that, we go to break, come back biggest waste of money of the week and the news. This is the Pete, the planner show this topic this week.

Kristen Ahlenius: The other thing too, about that situation is seeking out. Someone to talk to you, likely a professional for the email, or I don't know if they're a podcast listener or a radio show listener, so they might not even hear this, but to work through what is likely feelings of guilt around the, what if I would have done things differently?

Like the email or pointed out, I financially spoiled my child. There are plenty of spoiled children who then don't withhold visits. of their children to their parents. So like, you have to find a way to forgive yourself for the decisions you made when you made them as well. [00:47:00]

Peter Dunn: Dave, I know our kids are of similar ages, teen, young teens.

And we also have, you know, friends who, whose kids are further along in the process, even to young adults. And you hear these stories of regret of if we'd handled this situation this way, then this, Seemingly systemic issue wouldn't be around. And I kind of listened to all of those just in wonder of like, man, are we going to naturally everyone sort of probably finds himself in that situation, the regret of parenting and maybe doing it a way that didn't get the.

Result you wanted. Have you thought through that yet?

Damian Dunn: I had a very similar experience in just thinking through the consequences of my actions or lack thereof in parenting this week and how they will manifest in my Children as they grow older. And as the time passed for me to try and correct some of those decisions, both made and unmade to hopefully guide my kids in a [00:48:00] better way.

So they have it. What I deem to be a better shot at success in adulthood. And I, I think that's something that I know I'm going to wrestle with for a long time because that's how I'm wired. But I, I think that there are lots and lots of parents out there that, that will have similar feelings and experiences.

Peter Dunn: Yeah, it's a deeply personal idea of like, what are your parenting goals? I mean, I, I would say I want my kids to know that their parents love them and I want to raise good human beings. That's about it. Right? I mean, a good human being is someone that thinks of others, contributes to society more than they take away from it.

Again, without getting judgmental and things like, but that's sort of my goal. And I'm not going to put my lens onto this person email or situation. I just don't want to create someone that is so dependent, you know?

Damian Dunn: Yeah. I mean, David noble in our comments made a comment, made a suggestion that I. [00:49:00] I wanted to say on air, but I didn't is basically leave the kid, leave money to the grandkids and cut their, cut the other kids out and set up a trust structured basis.

Peter Dunn: Dane, whatever filter you put on to filter out the birds now has you chopped up. So just leave the birds in. Yeah, so Kristen got kicked off the Internet. Dame's got a bird festival. I feel a little static on my end.

Kristen Ahlenius: I didn't get kicked off the Internet. It's just StreamYard, and that's the second time in a row that it's done that to me.


Damian Dunn: sure. Should I talk for just a second to see if it smooths itself out or am I still being choppy and cuddy and somebody else is going to have to read the news? That's

Kristen Ahlenius: fine. That's fine.

Peter Dunn: Okay. I mean, it's not like this thing's going to win a Pulitzer. I don't know what that means. What a weird show. What a weird show.

It's all on me. No, thank the spider. May he rest in pieces.

Kristen Ahlenius: You didn't leave him there [00:50:00] as like a

Peter Dunn: warning. Show his head. I know every spider described is described at 2X its actual size.

Kristen Ahlenius: Correct. Like, remember that time there was one in your studio and you made it. And Damien and I were like, this is so embarrassing.

It's so small. Just step on it.

Peter Dunn: What if that spider from this week was like payback from that spider's family? They found you, they found you. They traveled home in my backpack.

Kristen Ahlenius: You put your backpack on the floor.

Peter Dunn: It's true. I'm asking this question to podcasters, you can email us or whatever. Ask Pete at pete.

com. People watching the live stream right now. Do you like the financial fraud segments where we're reading real court documents and court filings? I'm just curious. Is that interesting or compelling? Is it? I don't want to say entertaining because that feels gross, but is it, is it interesting? Or is it, do you want us to stop doing it?

I think it's interesting personally. There's a degree of danger in it that I don't necessarily [00:51:00] love yet. I still lean into. Kristen, do you like it? Are you just so uncomfortable?

Dame, you love it. I'm here

Damian Dunn: for it. I love it.

Peter Dunn: Okay. So Chris likes it. Andy likes it. That's all we need. That's the majority of our listeners. There we go. Thanks, Chris. Thanks, Andy. Okay. Let's do more of this. Oh my gosh. When I sent you the story earlier this week, the Alexander joy story. I, I read it, but I've, I've conveniently forgotten the details of until we reread it on the air.

And I'm just finding myself sort of going back through it right now, as we wrap up the show. I'm just blown away. By the way, Jason says it's not terribly interesting to me. Sorry. Don't be, don't apologize. Brian thinks it's interesting. David thinks it's interesting. Calm mom says both. Man. [00:52:00] Can you imagine if I was calm dad?

You know, I mean, I'm not married to a calm mom. That feels aggressive. We just met her. But I am not calm dad.

Kristen Ahlenius: I think favorite of the show, Brian Pinkins, gets the takeaway, which is that it sheds light on real issues, which is what, I think, we all hope that everyone takes away, is like, this can literally happen to anyone.

And It could be happening to people, you know, and this is how you look out for that.

Peter Dunn: I love the birds in the background. I don't want this show to ever be anything more than it is, which is just us having a good time. Barn birds. Screaming

Damian Dunn: for heat stroke, it's unlikely that they will be around next Friday.

Are you

Peter Dunn: in a non air conditioned barn on a, on a 96 degree day in Northern Indiana? No, I have a window

Damian Dunn: air conditioner.

Peter Dunn: You guys all I want from this, this show episode is I want. If someone [00:53:00] thinks they're financially secure and they bought investment products from someone like this, I want them to at least learn the truth so they can make other arrangements.

That's what I want. That's why I'm doing it. That's what I want. Okay. And three, two, this week's biggest waste money of the week right here on the Pete, the planner show.

This Brabus. And Wake, Shadow Jetboard, Awake, and Brabus are releasing a jetboard with performance worthy of the Brabus name. The limited edition Shadow Jetboard wears Brabus's signature black and red color scheme and can hit 34 miles per hour on the water with its electric linear jet system. This is awesome.

By the way, that's incredible. Just under six feet. Same. The shadow uses carbon [00:54:00] fiber fins for stability with up to 60 minutes of runtime. The Brabus awake shadow jet board is limited to 77 units worldwide. Kristen, does this have any interest to you?

Kristen Ahlenius: No, not really.

Peter Dunn: So it's a surfboard that is self powered.

And goes 34 miles an hour. Dame,

Damian Dunn: does this interest you? I mean, it really interests Dame. That's 20 years younger, because I think I could have pulled that off. But now it just seems like a novelty to me.

Peter Dunn: Yeah, it seems like an expensive paperweight to me. But as a younger man, I would have enjoyed it. And he can run from sharks.

With it. Kristen, how much do you think the shadow jet board costs a brother?

Kristen Ahlenius: Jeez. I don't even, I, it costs three. I'm laughing at the birds. It costs 3,

Damian Dunn: 500.

Peter Dunn: Okay. That's a

Damian Dunn: good guess. If it's this, if it's the [00:55:00] same Brabus that does some modifications for cars, it's going to be wildly overpriced. And if there's only 77 of them, that's going to be even more overpriced birds.

What do you think? They agree. They think it's gonna be cheap. Cheap, yeah. I'm gonna say ten grand.

Peter Dunn: 19, 283. Kristen, ask Dame what's in the news.

Kristen Ahlenius: What's in the news?

Damian Dunn: Unlike Sabrina Carpenter, most influencers can probably relate to desperation. Despite their carefully curated feeds that highlight lavish lifestyles, most of them aren't making much money according to the Wall Street Journal.

Surprise, Pete, I know that's a huge surprise. This is the thing that caught my attention though. There are about, yeah, I know, there are about 50 million people making cash off of social media posts. Does that sound [00:56:00] right to you? 50 million people, Pete? More

Kristen Ahlenius: people make money on social media than have student loans.

Damian Dunn: Maybe that's the solution.

Kristen Ahlenius: Interesting. Go ahead.

Damian Dunn: I,

Peter Dunn: I would sell tickets to your, your bird museum, Dave. I, these birds, they are literally the best part of the show. The show has been on there for 15 years. As you know, we're a top 1 percent podcast in the world. The best part of the show are the birds in your barn.

Sorry. I, I do. And then it's the birds. Then Kristen. They get co host titles now? Should we name them? Yes. Anyway, continue. 50 million people getting paid from social media. It seems like a lot. I, I, I don't want to say I don't buy it, but the amounts that they're getting paid have got to be super small.

Kristen Ahlenius: Wait, 50 or 15?


Damian Dunn: 5 0, 50 million people. Yeah, that's a lot. You [00:57:00] need to work on your bird impression, Pete. All right. So 48 percent of them made this amount or less 48 percent 50 million people, 48 percent of them made this amount or less 1,

Kristen Ahlenius: 000,

Damian Dunn: 10, 000, 15, 000, almost half, almost 25 million people. Made 15, 000 or less.

Well, I mean, there's probably a significant portion on that bell curve that is down towards the 10 2, 000 range, but they, the break point was 15, 000. Is it possible

Peter Dunn: we can, we call BS on this because. Or are we just out of touch, which I think we're out of touch?

Damian Dunn: I don't know. It says eMarketer predicts that as a group, social media creators will make 13.

7 billion dollars this year, with 59 percent coming from brand sponsorships. All right. Let's [00:58:00] go ahead, Kristen.

Kristen Ahlenius: I mean, I believe that there are people making lots of money. I find it so hard to believe that 25 million people are making more than 15, 000.

Peter Dunn: Here's my problem. And this is, this is my problem.

This is my baggage. 100 percent my baggage. Dame, if my kids came to me and were like, I want to be a creator, a social media creator for a living, I would be furious. I know. Furious. I know. Kristen, how does that strike you as someone who doesn't, isn't responsible for young teens?

Kristen Ahlenius: Okay,

Peter Dunn: so that's fine.

I'm okay with that, but that is, that is the truth.

Kristen Ahlenius: Really? Honestly.

Peter Dunn: Great. That's fine. Do

Damian Dunn: you think that social media influencer is a legitimate career path for?

Kristen Ahlenius: I don't think it's a legitimate career path. I think that it's a [00:59:00] legitimate job. And, If you can nurse a following along to make income to then elevate your life.

I think that's a really, people are doing it literally all the time. You just said 25 million.

Damian Dunn: So would you consider this more of a side hustle than a primary gig?

Kristen Ahlenius: Yes. A side hustle. But that's the thing is it starts as side hustles and then you have these influencers, one of the biggest influencers on Tik TOK, she has like two engineering degrees and she doesn't practice.

She just does Tik TOK.

Damian Dunn: I just need to practice. She's good. She just does it.

Peter Dunn: Yeah, so this is again, I'm willing to if this makes me look poor, poorly, can you look poorly if this makes me if this makes me look bad? I'm okay with it. I'm just being honest. Like I benefit from content creators. I'm entertained by them.

I watch YouTube on a pretty regular basis. So I'm not going there to contributing nothing to society. [01:00:00] I don't I don't believe that. I think in my opinion It just doesn't see, it seems like a very risky career choice to start as a young person. That, that's, that's my, that's the dad move in me, you know, I don't know.

Damian Dunn: I wonder, I mean, 50 million is a huge number, but I wonder how much, how many of those people already have experience in the arts. You know, they've got something, they're just bringing social media. In an addition to what they're doing. It's not just somebody who's striking out trying to figure something else the other time

Peter Dunn: Well, it's not breaking news that i'm out of touch.

But what else is in

Damian Dunn: the news?

Peter Dunn: 20

Damian Dunn: percent pete that's the share of disputed credit card charges that global merchants say are credit card holders legitimate purchases the visa owned payment management company cyber source said So called friendly fraud can range from flagging unrecognized transactions [01:01:00] and unwanted subscriptions To try and get stuff for free Consumer advocates say it's a sign that people know their rights as card holders friendly frog cost card issuers and merchants lots and lots of money How much well last year consumers disputed about 105 million charges with credit card issuers in the u.

s Worth an estimated 11 billion dollars. That's up from 7. 2 billion in 2019 according to dados insights a finance industry research firm That company predicts that figure will rise nearly 40 percent by 2026.

Peter Dunn: Chris, and there are some gray areas in this world of what is, you know, so, so you go to a grocery store and they mischarge you, they undercharge you for an item accidentally.

And some could argue that as a gray area that you should go up to him like, Oh, Hey, you want to charge me. This is theft. I think what we're talking about here is, is actual theft where you, you buy something and then you say you didn't buy it and then you keep what you bought and didn't pay for that is, that is, [01:02:00] that is actual theft.

Kristen Ahlenius: Yeah. You're not wrong by definition. That that's true.

Peter Dunn: Dame, is there any way what we're describing here is not theft? And, and in fact, I read the article, I think it was in the wall street journal, it was about the, the, this 22 year old kid that was like, Disputed a 3 tip to a bartender. And that was a little bit more nuanced because he's like, I didn't tip him.

And it's like, so this guy didn't tip a bartender. The bartender put on three bucks, which he shouldn't have done, but then he disputes the tip, but he didn't tip him. It's just like, what is happening? Dude, this is a wild, wild thing.

Damian Dunn: Yeah, I don't, I don't get it. We are facing some weird and unprecedented times.

Peter Dunn: And in that case, we must send you good vibes. Because good vibes earns all of us in the budget. And we're not disputing those charges. I'm Pete the Planner, and this is the Pete the Planner Show. I don't know, I don't know, I'm sorry. Final disclaimer of the day.

Kristen Ahlenius: Oh my.

Peter Dunn: Everything we said will prove out in court, whether it happened or didn't [01:03:00] happen.

They're alleged. But if what the court filing documents say are true, Watch out! Because there will be criminal charges to follow. In my opinion. Kristen, I know this is your favorite topic. Anything else you want to add? Dame, anything you want to say about your birds?

Damian Dunn: Andy, I will try and get some pictures that Pete can share next week in in one of our breaks.

All right, everybody. Stay getting money.