September 1, 2023

Kristen, what debts would you take on?

In this week’s episode, Kristen and Pete discuss what types of loans they’d actually sign-up for.

Episode Transcript

Peter Dunn: [00:00:00] Now, I typically wouldn't eat dinner in a party of 30 people at a restaurant, but here's the thing about youth travel sports. At some point in time, you're going to end up in a party of 30 people in a restaurant in a city you've never been in. And that was me last Saturday in Holland, Michigan, a beautiful place.

And as the server, who I assume they don't want to have a party of 30, is going around to take people's orders, I noticed something that the person was saying, that the server was saying. I'm not going to get their gender involved because I don't want you to make this a gender thing. I just need you to hear this on the surface.

I will. probably slip and use that person's pronoun. But anyway, here's what the person said after every single order. I like, I ordered, uh, what did I order? I don't know. But the guy next to me is an older fella [00:01:00] ordered beef stroganoff. So I'll just say that. So he ordered beef stroganoff and the service said, Oh, that's one of my favorites.

And then the kid next to him ordered a chicken sandwich on a pretzel bun. Ooh. That's one of my favorites. And I watched the service lips is they went around the table of 25 or 30. And every time they said, Oh, that's one of my favorites. And Kristen joining me here now on the show. I didn't know, like, was she hustling us like, or she got him.

I knew it would happen. What was going on there? Is that just like a server trick in that? And she didn't think that we could all hear her or. She's just a big fan of the fair.

Kristen Ahlenius: Probably a server trick for smaller tables so that you like plant the seed of, Oh, this is delicious. But it just got used on 30 people in a row.

Peter Dunn: Uh, I you and I [00:02:00] think might be the same on this. Um, if I'm in a group outside of my family eating dinner, most of the meal, I am nervous about the check process, not because I just wouldn't pick it up myself because I'll often do that to get out of the fact that How the splitsies work, like, you know, a table, 30 people are Venmo and I, and like, it ruins my meal.

Kristen Ahlenius: It, I, the social awkwardness of like, when a server, like, especially if you're in a group and they just bring one, like, I don't even want to have to deal with it. I would even prefer, like, even if it's like two couples, just bring everybody their own because I just don't want to, I don't want to talk about it.

I don't want to deal with it. It makes me feel awkward. Here's

Peter Dunn: the thing. I'm actually not worried about the financial aspects of Oh, what if I owe more than other people or other people won't pay? I don't, don't care about that. It's the logistics of the awkwardness of the social gathering. Speaking of awkwardness, Dane is off this week.

Well, no, it's awkward that he's not here. Right. Yeah. [00:03:00] You read that as it's awkward, right? Dane's awkward. Whew. I know this is an audio format, by the way. And hello, Rochelle. Happy long weekend, Kristen and co. She says hello, Jason. Hello, Andy. Uh, B Pankins joining us on LinkedIn. Uh, Chris, I know this is an audio format, but you have got a new camera set up.

I do. New lighting, looking. Looking fresh and so clean.

Kristen Ahlenius: Yes. I am a big fan. And, um, again, this is a visual thing and the podcasters can't see it. So you love that. But the wall behind me is very like seventies orange. And we were in an all team meeting, the advice team and a member of our team said. So was that wall like that when you moved in?

And I said, Oh no, I did this on purpose. And I think she was trying to like delicately ask me if I liked it. So I did paint my wall this ugly 70s orange on

Peter Dunn: purpose. That's uncomfortable. I liked it. Um, Chris, speaking of uncomfortable, [00:04:00] I was part of a very uncomfortable national news moment this morning, Kristen.

Yes, you are. So, uh, I, I was doing a news hit this morning and on the lead, I was talking about student loans, which by the way, if I'm on a news talking about student loans, what a travesty that you're not on the news talking about the student loans. Uh, so the, the, uh, the anchor who I've been on with several times, she said, uh, everyone's talking about student loins, student loins.

And then she cracked up and her co workers cracking up and they tossed to me and I'm like you do realize by introducing me as a student loin expert you're risking my entire career and then we extended the laugh. Why is the phrase student loin so uncomfortable?

Kristen Ahlenius: Um. I feel like there's an obvious answer there, but I want to hear what you're going to say about it.

No, absolutely not. Um, but I mean, you just have to roll with it. Eventually you say stuff that's [00:05:00] dumb or that you didn't mean. And sometimes the stakes are a little higher. Sometimes you say something that's worse than other things. So it's

Peter Dunn: fine. All right. So I was in Lexington KY this week. Uh, uh, see Heather.

Heather, I'm sorry. I just interrupted myself because this is very important. Heather in Facebook, uh, live just said cute hair, Kristen and Kristen. What did I say when we got together? I was like, your hair looks amazing

Kristen Ahlenius: today. Yeah, you did say that and it's the lighting. I didn't do anything different. It's just that I'm in front of natural light now instead of having to use a ring light and.

I personally also agree that like the highlights sort of come out.

Peter Dunn: Yeah. Yeah. Nice. I mean, I'm living vicariously through your locks.

Kristen Ahlenius: Yeah. Your highlights look the same, really.


Peter Dunn: you. It's just the greasiness of a, of a middle aged man's head. I'm in Lexington, Kentucky this week, and I'm walking down the street after a speaking gig.[00:06:00]

And I walked by this restaurant called Sawyer's. Okay. And I'm like, I don't know. I'm just walking. I'm walking. I hadn't eaten. I'm about to drive home for three hours. And I'm like, and it says something like best hamburgers and Lexington. And you know, you had me at beef reference, right? Kristen. I was like, okay, let me go in.

So I go into this place. It's really clean. And like, people are super friendly, like making Chick fil a look like a bunch of meanies. And I'm like, I've never been here. What do I do? And there's like a nice young man at the register. This older fella comes around the corner. He's like, Okay. Well, this is my restaurant.

Let me show you around. And he just starts showing me around. And, and it was like the most lovely it's it's a burger place, but it was just like this idea, it was felt so old school. I felt it was like in like the 1950s. This guy's like, well, welcome to my commerce. Like it was, it was so [00:07:00] wonderful and it makes me feel, uh, Really strange that I somehow secretly wanted to go into an establishment in which the owner was there and greeted you like you were family.

Isn't that weird of something you didn't even know you wanted?

Kristen Ahlenius: I suppose the follow up question there, though, is like, did the food match the experience? It

Peter Dunn: slapped. No, I don't know. That's what people say. I don't, I don't know. No. No.

Kristen Ahlenius: No one says that? I don't think people

Peter Dunn: say that anymore. Um, okay. Let me, let me, uh, I've learned some new slang from the kids.

Oh? Do you know what ops are? No. Okay. So in our business, ops are opportunities and ops are also operations. So there are, when we talk about ops here in these walls. It's opportunities, if you're on the BizDev team, it's operations, if you're on another team. The kids, these are like their opponents, like, [00:08:00] no, Andy guess optics, no.

It's like opponents, like opposition research, like, uh, these are the people that they don't get along with at school. And like my door come home, it came on. She's like, I have some new ops. And my son was like, yeah. And I'm like, what, what's going on? I was like new opportunities. What kind of opportunity is it going to join the key club or whatever?

And she's like. No. Calm down, Boomer. Um, no. And I was like, what? You're keeping track of people you don't get along with? Like, what? Who's raised you?


Kristen Ahlenius: I'm confused because the words don't even start the same.

Peter Dunn: I don't. Kristen, do you want to come in parent like? You're welcome to. No, absolutely not. Please do.

Aunt Kristen. No. Who's this? Let's say, let's say for a second, okay, Mrs. Planner and I go off to like a weekend in the big city and, and I'm like, Hey, just if anybody wants [00:09:00] to come stay with, what would it be like for you? I'm just like, let's walk through this for a second. You obviously a fun, young, intelligent, responsible person.

In charge of a 14 year old girl and an 11 year old boy for 48 hours. Walk me through where you're, where you're at mentally on this.

Kristen Ahlenius: Um, well, first of all, I would have to be bribed to do that. I don't, I

Peter Dunn: would never ask you because that's unprofessional, but I'm just saying for the, for the, I would

Kristen Ahlenius: have to be bribed 100 percent and it would involve me doing as many like passive things.

As possible, like, here, you do passive things. No, like, for them, for them, like, me not being involved. Like, hey, you can watch this movie your parents told you you couldn't watch. Like, leave me alone.

Peter Dunn: Oh, they do that anyway. They're not for.

Kristen Ahlenius: Oh, but there's still things they're probably not supposed to see. Oh,

Peter Dunn: they're scandalous.

Yeah. Let's do a radio show about money. Uh, [00:10:00] probably, yeah. Okay. First topic is home equity. All right, let's start the show. Clearly I don't have something right after this. Jeremiah. I feel like it's

Kristen Ahlenius: always when Damien's gone.

Peter Dunn: I don't know. I had some good coffee this morning, so I think it's hitting at the right time.

Excellent. Same. It is a drug, y'all. Um, okay. Good. Good. Good. Good. Just setting the timer. Hey, um, podcast people, actually people watching right now, the last week's open of the show was incredibly cringeworthy, right? I, I've lived in shame for the last 168 hours. It was brutal. I am embarrassed. Okay, here we go in 321.

This week on the Pete the Planner show, we answer your money questions. Here's how the show works. Email us askpete at petetheplanner. com. That's askpete at petetheplanner. com. We [00:11:00] are financial experts. And what do we do? We answer your questions without saying, just give us a call on Monday and we'll sell you things.

Because that's the thing about when you listen to radio shows, unfortunately, a lot about money. The point of the radio show is actually to sell you things. Uh, back in 2009, when we started this radio program, I said, what if we had a radio show that didn't involve trying to sell people stuff? And we could just have a nice community of people who want to get better with the finances.

And that is where we are today. I use the word we, that is a plural. My wife is a high school English teacher and my colleague is Kristen Alanius, director of education at Your Money Line, and she fills out the we. Hello, Kristen. A lot of coffee. I can tell. All right. So Kristen, um, there are a lot of financial institutions.

Advertising home equity loans right now. And there, there's, there's a classic reason why. And we're going to talk about home [00:12:00] equity loans for a second. But the classic reason is, is very simple. If you can't sell refinanced, Mortgage rates, right? If you can't say, Oh, Hey, come in and let us take over your mortgage from this bank.

We want to be your bank and we're going to have you pay this lower rate, not a thing right now because interest rates are crazy. So the way they have to create revenue and business for themselves is to say, Hey, you know, that mortgage you have. should borrow against your home equity, or maybe the more you don't have a mortgage and you should borrow against the equity in your home.

And Kristen, as a financial expert, both you and I, more you than me, we generally don't love that. I, we think it's a sign of trouble. It is a, is an issue. How do you get your head around? Big question, home equity in general.

Kristen Ahlenius: Well, I think first, I try really hard to look at it through an empathetic lens, because when we're looking at the [00:13:00] interest rate environment that we're in, if I'm someone who feels like I need access to cash, even though the home equity rate that I might be getting, which I don't know, I didn't look them up before this segment, they're probably, what, eight, nine percent?

Don't even know. So let's just call it less than ten. That's still far. More advantageous to me financially when we look at that from a mathematical perspective then a personal loan then Taking like a credit card or like putting money on a credit card that you can't pay back so I get where the temptation comes from and then I feel like Sometimes financial institutions just kind of like fuel that fire by saying, Well, it's right here.

Here's your access to cheap money. And it's really like, it's you like you already own it. You're just kind of borrowing the money from you. And we're just the catalyst

Peter Dunn: for that. See, this is spurring so many weird feelings for me. And I get grumpy for a second. I don't know. Dame's not here [00:14:00] and he's usually my catalyst of grump.

Um, here's the challenge. I get really, really frustrated when a financial institution, specifically a lender, stokes irresponsible borrowing. I want my bank to encourage savings, not spending. Like I bank at Chase, as one of the banks at Chase, I'm just calling you out Chase. Boy, I hope we didn't have a partnership in the works.

I remember a few years ago, I got an email that they did a partnership with Maserati and in the email subject line was something like, buy a Maserati today from my bank. What? And I was like, you know, this stinks. There's something wrong with that. So the idea that, that obviously banks need to make revenue right now, and they're just dangling home equity lines that it, I won't call it [00:15:00] predatory because it's not, but it does not seem in the spirit of helping people make the best decisions.

Kristen Ahlenius: No, it doesn't, but a few weeks ago when we talked about insurance companies, we talked about how it's weird to have someone on the opposite end of this transaction that needs to be profitable. And in the environment that we're in, I mean, there have to be levers that those financial institutions can pull to make money.

I'm not saying that it's right, but by the nature of how it's built, I'm trying to play like devil's advocate here. What what do you do? Cool. Cool.

Peter Dunn: You're right. And that's why you can call it predatory. But here's the challenge, Kristen. As you look at home equity in general, and you look at increasing housing, the increasing housing market and a rising housing market, boy, I love words.

If a person's like, well, Hey, my home equity keeps going up. I might as well tap it. [00:16:00] Like what's wrong with that? I mean, it's somewhat of a logical statement.

Kristen Ahlenius: It is somewhat logical, but I think where that logic falls apart is, uh, for me, so we can, I love to throw myself under the bus, so we have this, uh, offering that we have at Your Money Line where I'm always willing to kind of like fall on the sword of the example so people feel that it's relatable.

So here's, an example would be, I owned a home when I lived in Arizona, and I owned that home for less than 18 months, and in those 18 months it appreciated by like 25%. Cool. Bye! My income at that time did not increase by 25 percent and the real kicker is if I would have held that home for another year It appreciated by like another 20 percent so the home is worth almost double what it was when I bought it and If I would have been used that as like hey, I have all of this equity My income wasn't matching that pace not even close.

I don't know very many people who in the same role they're in are making [00:17:00] double what they were making, you know, less than two years or two and a half years prior. So I think that's where the danger comes in is it feels like you're really moving your financial life forward and in some ways you are, but if other really important variables aren't pacing that increase, it can be really

Peter Dunn: dangerous.

This is an incredibly nuanced point that we need to dig in on because here's what you're saying. You're saying that let's say you've got a And your income supports that and you choose to take a home equity loan because let's say that there's something that you want or you're in a situation in which you can't afford what is in front of you.

So then what you've done is you've borrowed beyond. what your income can theoretically support. And if you've done this on the heels of a major increase in your property value, then it's going [00:18:00] to outpace anything realistic. Yet your loan will still get approved because they have your home as collateral.

Kristen Ahlenius: Correct. And leveraging what should be your home. I think it's because, and maybe I think you feel this way too, and maybe we're a little bit conservative in this respect, but I just don't believe, unless you really have no other options, that leveraging your home equity is in your best interest. I think that it puts additional pressure on your financial health.

And of course, there are circumstances where I think that could be an option. By and large, I don't think that's something you should do. I think for us, that's what this is coming back to is putting that additional pressure on your primary residence is just not something that I subscribe to.

Peter Dunn: Or let's do this.

We're coming back with a game that I'm creating on the fly. Right on. But you're the contestant, so you don't have to do anything except just seem witty, which is easy for you. Where the game is [00:19:00] called, would you take out this type of loan? Would you take out this type of loan? You will answer. And as the host, I will, I will provide witty banter and I'll also say what I, or what I not as well.

I will also, I will be a player slash host of this because there are certain debt instruments that I would absolutely take out. I have taken out and there are others that just personally, I would not. And the reason I want to do this, Kristen is. Cause I think this is a somewhat respectful way. We can tell people to try to avoid some of these loans.

Yeah. Um, because what I don't want to say is you should never take out this or that. What I would say is, look, as a personal finance expert personally, I would never do that. Now you choose what you want to do. It's like asking a doctor, would you smoke cigarettes? And the doctor's like, I wouldn't. You know, I don't think you should, but whatever.

Anyway, let's do that. Is that fair? Can we do that? Yeah, let's do that. Did I blow up the show? No, it's fine. Okay. I don't need to be admonished on a Friday. Coming [00:20:00] up after the break. Would I take out that type of loan right here on the Pete the Planner show? I'm Pete the Planner. Well, that's fun. I just had a friend text me that they like your hair too.

Aw, that's so kind. And I'm a little creeped out by that because that actually crossed the line to creepy that a man texted me to say he's watching a colleague of mine on the internet and he likes her hair. looks nice. Yeah. So, my friend that's watching this right now, you're a creeper.

Kristen Ahlenius: That's not kind.

You're a stalker.

Peter Dunn: Different. Creepy man. Creepy, creepy man man. Um,

Kristen Ahlenius: Can I have a very brief moment of vulnerability with how you close that segment? Yes. So you often use words that I don't know.

Peter Dunn: Oh, what'd I say? I don't even remember. It was Pete the planner. It's my name is Pete, the is an article and planner is our profession.


Kristen Ahlenius: and I read quite a bit like I, I, and they always [00:21:00] say that you should. Be able to improve your vocabulary. Maybe I don't read books that do that, but, um, it, as a point of insecurity, I've started playing word scapes because I feel like my vo, my vocabulary is not up to par. So I'm trying to try to level up and be not quite at your level,

Peter Dunn: I assume.

See, well, I, here's the thing. I don't necessarily that thank, that's, I, I appreciate vulnerability and honestly on our show. I, I, I like it. Uh. I don't necessarily feel like I use dynamic words. No, I don't. But see, Aqua, the legend that is Aqua Drake, he was always like, I don't know, I have literally no idea what you're talking about.


Kristen Ahlenius: know. Yeah. Like, usually with context clues, I'm like, I get it. But you'll say words that I've legitimately never heard

Peter Dunn: before. I think it's a writing thing, honestly. Um, uh, and I don't know. That's interesting. Like, I don't. I'm not like digging through a thesaurus, like a lonely man. What are you [00:22:00] consuming right now, Kristen?

Like, what is your media consumption?

Kristen Ahlenius: Um, I'm almost done with the King of Queens. I know we talked about that, like. Oh, long time ago. There's nine seasons. Who knew? I'm almost

Peter Dunn: done. King of Queens is in the genre of cute wife, schlubby husband, which turns out,

Kristen Ahlenius: yeah, she's mean.

Peter Dunn: Oh, I was, but I'm glad you said that before I said what I was going to say.

Oh, cute wife, schlubby husband. I was like, I have found myself living that life. Um, but then you said she's mean. And if I would have mistimed that. Yeah. By the way, a colleague of ours just, um, texted me. This is not the same person that likes your hair. Why are people texting me during my show? I don't know.

You're literally watching. Quit texting me. He just texted me. He expressed dismay with me. Last week he was upset with me about what

Kristen Ahlenius: doesn't matter. Oh, okay. I thought you meant on the show. Like [00:23:00] no, no, no, no, no.

Peter Dunn: Like in business it was, but he said, I am perturbed by your malaise is what he said to me. I am perturbed by your malaise.

And I was like, are you going to slap me with a white glove? Like what is happening?

Kristen Ahlenius: I feel like that was Ben. It was Ben.

Peter Dunn: Um, Grant wants to know, was it the word admonished? Yeah. I don't know what that means. Admonished. Uh, it's to like to correct or to like, um, like to, you know, you're being admonished.

You're being, uh, uh, disciplined or, you know, something like that.

Kristen Ahlenius: Yeah. That was an excellent description.

Peter Dunn: I don't even know what I was talking about. Perturbed by your malaise. I was like, you know, who says that Ben? Someone who went to Northwestern. You're wearing your Northwestern. Kristen, I had a really out of body experience when I was speaking in Lexington.

Um, you know, I, sometimes I get going and I can't [00:24:00] reel it in and it's like the filter comes off and, and what happens is I will literally say whatever comes to my mind. And sometimes it's amazing. And sometimes it's not like last week, the, the, the recycling thing was stupid. But so I'm, I'm talking to about a thousand people.

Okay. I'm going, I'm going pretty, it's going well. I've got a laser pointer, uh, which I'm making a point on a slide on a screen, the size of an IMAX screen, right? I'm just sort of pointing out there and I'm in Rupp arena, which is where the Kentucky Wildcats play basketball. I don't know if the sports ball, are you with me here?

Yeah, a little bit. Yeah. Okay. Iconic arena, right? Pointing up there. And I, I see the laser pointer sort of skittering on the screen and I sort of just turn. I say, I'm like, Doesn't it look like I'm trying to play with a cat? I was like, wouldn't it be amazing? In front of a thousand people? In front of a thousand people, I'm like, wouldn't it be amazing?

I'm like, I'm out of my mind. [00:25:00] Wouldn't it be amazing if a wild cat came out right now? And I just went down this It was I don't know what happened. I just went down this thing of like, I'm trying to like in a very, I'm convincing the crowd. I'm like, wouldn't it be crazy if an actual cat came out right now?

I didn't stop for like 20 seconds. One of our colleagues was in the audience afterwards. He's like, he's going, what are you doing? I don't know. I got too comfortable.

Kristen Ahlenius: That's awesome. Glad it happened to you and not

Peter Dunn: me. Oh, go to Houston next week. I'm going to be so sweaty.

Kristen Ahlenius: Oh, when Gigi and I were there, it was awesome.

What she might have to correct me. It was like I think it was not the heat index was like 98 degrees at 5 a. m When we left for the airport,

Peter Dunn: the only time I want to be involved with 98 degrees is if Nicholas Shea is there Reference that there was no [00:26:00] way you're gonna understand but people just laughed out loud I promise you people just laughed Allowed.

Mm hmm. Mm hmm. 98 Degrees was a boy band back in the 90s and there were two brothers in the boy band, Nick and Drew Lachey. They were from Cincinnati. Nick Lachey married Jessica Simpson. I don't know if you know who Jessica Simpson is. I have heard of her, yeah. Jeez, this is the worst.

Kristen Ahlenius: I'm I'm I'm I'm Just checking.

Just Just briefly here. Um Oh, okay. I was alive. It's fine.

Peter Dunn: You were alive. No, we've talked Okay, let's get going. Oh, the game! I'm a game show host. Uh, let me do some voices here. Let me see. Excellent.

Is this good? Okay, this will be my game show voice. Is this a good game show voice? What do I do? Should I change it? How about no, this is normal. This is this week. No, I don't want to do that. What [00:27:00] do you want to do? This one? Um, no, no. All right. I'm just going to use a normal voice. Okay. I would host a game show.

You would be career aspirations. Yeah. I would love it. Rick Swink gets a reference. Jessica Simpson likes chicken and fish, so on, there was a reality show, uh, with Nick Lachey and Jessica Simpson on MTV, and she was eating a can of tuna, and it was the brand Chicken of the Sea. And she thought she was eating chicken, but the nature of the brand is tuna is the chicken of the sea.

It is, in fact, not chicken. I like to think of Rick Swink sitting back watching a Jessica Simpson reality show. I doubt it. Okay. Uh, Chuck says he thought it was a deodorant brand, 98 Degrees. No, that's degree. [00:28:00] Hmm. Close. I buy really expensive deodorant. Native? Yeah. Yeah. Fourteen dollars a stick.

Kristen Ahlenius: And it's like half the size of regular

Peter Dunn: deodorant.

I use the lavender one, cause it brings me comfort. So sometimes when my days are going scary, I go, Oh, this is on LinkedIn. I was

Kristen Ahlenius: just going to say, you do recall that we're streaming on LinkedIn.

Peter Dunn: When am I going to figure this out?

Kristen Ahlenius: Probably right as Ben pulls the plug.

Peter Dunn: He hasn't texted me back to tell me he's perturbed by my malaise.

All right. In three, two. One back on the Pete, the planner show. And after a brief break, uh, so we're playing a new game. It is called, would you take out that type of loan? Here's how it works. Kristen Alanius is one of the four world's foremost [00:29:00] experts. And we are going to ask her on a very personal level, would she take out particular types of debt?

And as the host, I will break the fourth wall and I will also answer whether or not I would take on those debts as well. So Kristen, welcome to the show.

Kristen Ahlenius: I'm so glad to be here. I'm looking forward to this segment. That

Peter Dunn: seemed insincere. Now, Kristen, would you take out a credit card?

Kristen Ahlenius: Yes, I wouldn't run a balance on one, but I would absolutely, I mean, I have a credit card.

Peter Dunn: Kristen, let me ask the question differently. Okay. Would you carry a balance on a credit card? As a means of solving a financial challenge? No.

Kristen Ahlenius: I would leverage just about anything else that I could, [00:30:00] um, before I would allow myself to carry a balance on a card. Would

Peter Dunn: you leverage other types of debt before you carried a credit card balance?

Yes, I would. Oh my, this, this game has taken a turn. Really? What other debt would you take out prior? To carry in a credit card balance.

Kristen Ahlenius: So for me, my answer for it, because I'm thinking about it through my lens for me personally, and when I think about my behavior and when it comes to finances, I think a fixed monthly payment with like an installment loan is far better for my personality type than.

A revolving line would be I can't say with 100 percent certainty because thankfully I don't have a lot. I don't really have any experience either way. But when I think about me as a person, I think that I would long term be better served by an installment loan over.

Peter Dunn: Wow. I would carry a balance [00:31:00] on a credit card as a means to solve a challenge if I was going to take on a debt.

And I don't mean for like nine months. I'm talking about like, you got a 30 day. cash crunch or something like that. I would theoretically do it. That being said, this is how sweaters unravel. Like this is how people get into so much trouble as they were like, you know what? I just need a little help here.

And the next category, Kristen, would you take out a car loan? Yes, absolutely. I would too.

Kristen Ahlenius: I would, I prefer, I would prefer to not. I haven't had a car payment for a little while now, and the financial freedom that I am awarded as a result, it's something that I worked really, really hard for. I was very, very aggressive in paying off the vehicle that I now own.

And I made that a priority because I wanted that cash flow freedom. Um, I don't think that's a [00:32:00] strategy for everybody, but for me personally, I try to avoid a car loan if I

Peter Dunn: can. We have talked in the last month or so in the show that I'm currently leveraging a car loan based on a weird situation. And what I did is it got a very long one and then just stretch it out because I'm going to pay it off in like three months anyway.

What do you like better? A very long car loan that you pay off aggressively or the, uh, a shorter car loan where it's better amateurized, if you will.

Kristen Ahlenius: I actually did the former. So when I bought the car that I have now, I financed it for as long as they would allow. And then I just paid it off really aggressively because I wanted that safety net, even though I thought I really don't think I'm ever going to need this.

I just tend to be someone who wants to, because I'm very anxious by nature. I just wanted that backup just in case.

Peter Dunn: Let's go back to an earlier question on the show, uh, credit card. Would you carry a balance [00:33:00] if the rate was 0%? I

Kristen Ahlenius: would carry a balance with a set payoff. Um, again, when I think about my personality type, I'm very, very, I do not like to give up cash.

I have a really hard time with that. So even if I can objectively afford something, if I'm given the opportunity to pay it over time, I am inclined to do that because I don't want to come off of a nest egg. In fact, I'm literally doing that right now.

Peter Dunn: Would you take, Kristen, would you take out a 401k loan?


Kristen Ahlenius: I, no,

Peter Dunn: no, no. And here's the tough one. This is why I wanted sort of this format because we didn't seem too judgy, but it's going to fail. We're going to, yeah, just don't do it. And if you've done it before, it's okay. It'll get better. You can, but it is [00:34:00] taking from your future, which is really the hardest thing you got to do is to have enough money for the future.

Really is the hardest thing. And I know the now seems a lot harder because it's immediate and you're in it, it's in your face. The hardest things to do is to successfully retire, to take from your future, to solve a now or a past problem, it doesn't work. Yeah,

Kristen Ahlenius: I, when I, when I'm talking to someone about situations like that, I try really hard to bring it down to that.

I understand that today's you has this issue like you just said, but future you doesn't deserve to bear those burdens either. So what can we do to mitigate, to truly mitigate the problem? What can we do to solve the issue that's in front of us? So that future you doesn't have to pay for a decision that today you is

Peter Dunn: making.

Okay, Kristen, Kristen, would you take out a home equity loan?

Kristen Ahlenius: I [00:35:00] would, but in, I think the circumstance would have to be very, very, very specific. Um, but I, I can't come up with a specific one. I don't want to say no, I never would, because I certainly think I've heard of examples. Where I've been like, okay, I understand that makes sense, but I want to

Peter Dunn: say no, I want to say no to, but I also want to be honest.

Like if, if I, if I needed a giant chunk of money and I was in a jam, we have a ton of equity in our home, a ton. Um, I, I might do it, but I can't think of, I'll say this several years ago, uh, we finished our basement. And specifically saved for it over a two year period. So I didn't take out a home equity loan.

So we enjoyed it two years later than we would have because theoretically I did not want to take out a home equity loan. Yeah.

Kristen Ahlenius: Well, I'm trying to think through a scenario where I would say like, okay, that makes sense. Like, [00:36:00] interest rates have risen. So you might not, maybe you have a low interest rate mortgage and you don't want to do, so for that reason, you wouldn't want to leverage a cash out refinance.

But maybe you're someone, to your point, you have a ton of equity in your home, you're on track to pay it off early, and maybe you're. Circumstances warrant significant upgrades or maybe even like additions to your home. That might be a situation where I would say you're still on track to pay your home off early and you need something more and selling and moving probably puts you in a worse position long term because of the housing market we're in.

I think a situation like that it could work.

Peter Dunn: Lightning round. Oh boy. Student loan. Yes. Yes. Payday loan. No. No. Uh, buy now, pay later. No. No. Options account. No. No. You know, I, I had an options account at one point, or, uh, you know, a margin account, I [00:37:00] should say. Um. And I didn't get burned, but I feel like I'm done with it.

Like I, it was a long time ago for those that don't know a margin account is where you leverage you, you put up as collateral your investments to borrow more money to invest. It is a risky strategy, a, I had hair then, so I think I just had a little bit more general confidence. Fair. You know what I mean? I don't have your hair, Kristen, where that confidence just, just follows me around all the time.

Now I'm just a more humble man. I don't know what to say to that. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay. Todd Stout on YouTube Live asked the question. Layaway. Yes. Yes. One hundred percent. I mean, I, I wouldn't, but I would. I would. You know what I mean? Right. Right. But I would. I, layaway is like literally the opposite of credit.

It's the opposite of a firm. Let's do this. Coming [00:38:00] up after the break, more of this. If you like it, come back. If not, change the channel. I'm Pete the Planner. I don't think the radio station's gonna like me saying, if you don't change the channel. I gotta. Probably not. I may get admonished for that. Oh boy.

Um, Kristen, what if one of our coworkers screenshotted me smelling my armpit and posted it in the Slack channel, in the random Slack channel. Do you see that?

Kristen Ahlenius: I didn't. I silenced my Slack notifications.

Peter Dunn: That is not Stop. That ain't right. That ain't right. Go Ben. You know, go Ben. Go away, Ben. I think he's upset because I, I uh, told on him and his

Kristen Ahlenius: Yeah, and you kind of like dogged on Northwestern.

Yeah, I don't.

Peter Dunn: What's he going to do? Haze me?

Kristen Ahlenius: Do you have a whole other segment of what you just said? No, what are we doing?

Peter Dunn: No, let's go. You had a plan. It was pretty good.

Kristen Ahlenius: [00:39:00] Um, well, you just said we had more of that, so that's why I was asking. No,

Peter Dunn: but this, I meant the shop. Oh.

Kristen Ahlenius: Um, what about either the stock market one where someone asks how you earn?

That's good. Let's do that one. Okay. You're the one from, that's signed from the letter R. Is that the one you're talking about?

Peter Dunn: Um. I think so. Let me look. I just started reading my email. Sorry. Nice. Yeah. Yeah. People are putting meetings on my calendar on a Friday. I've got to do stuff today. Quit putting, if you're watching the show right now and you, we are colleagues, stop putting stuff on my calendar, please, sir and ma'am.

All right. Here we go. God, people around here love to just book you on something. They do , uh, da da da Ida coffee at 7:00 AM this morning, downtown with an old colleague. Old, old Alex [00:40:00] used to work, uh, back in the day here at your Mon 2015 is when he started working for us. Mm-Hmm. . He's moved on in his career.

He is out in Boulder. He was in town. Great, great guy. Played lacrosse at IU. Like, really, really good guy. Um, Formidable mustache. Yeah. Formidable. I

Kristen Ahlenius: don't like that

Peter Dunn: word either. Formidable or mustache? Formidable. Okay. It's like, wow. You're pretty anti hair, uh, when it comes to like, you don't like mustache, you know what I'm saying?

Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. If, yeah, that would, you know what, okay, let's go with this, uh, okay, let's go in three, two, one back on the Pete, the planner show, Kristen, we get emails every once in a while and sometimes they aren't spam. We received one from a person named R, which I think is short for something. [00:41:00] And the question goes like this.

Hi Pete and team. Thank you. When you say, are you in team?

Kristen Ahlenius: I would assume yes. Yeah.

Peter Dunn: When you say if you put a hundred away, when you say I'm starting over. Hi Pete and team. When you say quote, if you put a hundred thousand dollars into an investment and leave it for 30 years, end quote. Do you say unquote or end quote?

Kristen Ahlenius: End quote, I think, right?

Peter Dunn: I think it's end quote. But every once in a while, my mouth shapes out an un. What is an example of that? For instance, I currently have about 150, 000 dollars, I assume American, in my rollover IRA. It was a 401k from my former employer. If I let that sit for 30 years, is that likely to grow to the 1.

49 million dollars in the example that I gave in an article? Thanks. R. What do you think [00:42:00] the R stands for? Reba.

Kristen Ahlenius: Really? No.

Peter Dunn: No, that was an R word, really. Um, so Kristen, how do you, you and I like live in this world in which we just toss this idea around on a pretty regular basis, but sometimes we forget to go back and, uh, welcome people through the barn door and help them understand what we're talking about.

So why don't you do that for us? Yeah,

Kristen Ahlenius: I think we collectively we being financial professionals skip over this part a lot. I know I'm guilty of it We're guilty of it on the show where we say, oh you invest money for the long term and it's going to grow Just like we talked about in the article and then you have this group of people who are either willing to say like the emailer Or people who are sitting there thinking?

Oh my gosh How do I not know this who are then saying? But how, how do I do that? And I, I think that's what the emailer is asking is logistically, how do you earn 8%? [00:43:00]

Peter Dunn: Yeah. And understanding that the gains are on paper. Oftentimes that's a, that's an industry term on paper or so. So let's, let's take a round amount.

Let's take a hundred thousand dollars and let's on January 1st, we've put it in the S and P 500. Is this, is this jive with what you're hoping to do? Yeah, that's fine. Is it jive or jibe? Jive. I think it's jibe. Oh. Anyway. Like, like you said, I'm good with words. Yeah. Um, 100, 000 in the S& P 500. So it is at a value at the beginning of the year.

It is If it's a fund, it's X dollars a share, it's whatever. At the end of that year, it has a different value because the underlying assets have different values. So in aggregate, it is different. And so it is the percentage [00:44:00] change over the course of that 365 days. That in this example, we're saying has increased on paper.

by 8%. You haven't had that money paid out to you. It's just the market value is different. Is that are we in the right ballpark with this explanation, Kristen? Yeah, I think we're in

Kristen Ahlenius: the right ballpark. And while we're here, I'd like to take that a step further because I know I've had people ask me, like, When you said the assets, the underlying assets, but I still don't understand what that means.

It's you taking your dollars and essentially purchasing little pieces of companies, and then you get to participate in, ideally, the growth of those companies. And then you eventually get paid for that investment. And because we're not getting like stock certificates that say that we've invested with Tim Apple or Walt Disney, which I don't know if they still do stock certificates anymore.

They did for a long time. Anyway, because we're not getting those stock [00:45:00] certificates and because it's all on paper or it's in a Betterment account or a Vanguard account or whatever, it doesn't even feel real. But at the end of the day, it is. It's you putting dollars into companies and hoping that those companies continue to perform better.

And as a result, you get to have a return on your dollars.

Peter Dunn: Now, here's where this gets interesting. It's year two, year one's pretty easy to explain. Sort of a year two is let's say at a hundred thousand dollars a first year, first day investment, the end of the year, it is appreciated to 108. That's at 8 percent increase in market value.

That is the basis. of which the growth in the second year occurs. So if you happen to get 8 percent again, and by the way, nothing's fixed in an S and P 500, it is variable. But let's say you got 8 percent again, it's no longer 8 percent of 100, 000 to 108 percent of 108, [00:46:00] 000. And that's where the compounding nature of this takes place.

That is how after whatever the holding period is, I don't know, 20, 30 years, 100, 000 can turn into 1. 5 million or whatever the example was, right?

Kristen Ahlenius: Yeah. A hundred percent. It's the difference between compound and simple interest. The difference being your interest is paying you interest. And when we look at the beginning, it's not going to feel like that.

If you're a new investor and you're putting money into your 401k, this emailers not of course, right? They have a pretty sizable sum, but if you're a new investor and you're looking at your gains, you're like, there is no way this 8 percent that I earned on my 401k this year is ever going to turn into 0.

6 million or whatever. It's because at the beginning, it doesn't feel like it's going to grow like that. But the, the beauty of the compound interest, the like eighth wonder of the world or whatever, is that over time that, uh, that growth becomes greater. When you look at that, uh, if you would put it on a graph, when you look at that graph, the climb becomes more.[00:47:00]

because interest is paying interest.

Peter Dunn: This leads to one of my favorite little weird math facts ever and investing facts and financial planning facts. Okay. By the way, don't I look like the sort of person that has favorite math facts? Yes. Like if you saw me at a club and by club, I mean, I wouldn't be there.

Uh, I would have math facts. Here it is. If you are 10 years out from retirement right now, like if you're going to retire 10 years from today, September 1st is when we're recording this 2033 and you've calculated how much money you need to retire. Let's say you've calculated, um, don't get stuck on this.

Let's say you calculate that you need 3 million bucks. Do not get stuck on that in order to know whether you're on track. You basically need half of that 10 years out. That's the power of compounding interest. That's the craziest thing in the world. You [00:48:00] work theoretically 35 years, 35 years from age 22 to 57 to save a big chunk of money.

And then within the next 10 years, The final 10 years of this career example, at age 67, you took 35 years to save one and a half million dollars, and if things go the way they're supposed to go, you save the extra one and a half million. You escond. Stop. That was showing off. Uh, in 10 years, that's crazy to me.


Kristen Ahlenius: I like that, but maybe as a, uh, Young millennial. I prefer the rule of 72. That's my favorite math fact.

Peter Dunn: There's a version of the rule of 72, by the

Kristen Ahlenius: way. 100 percent, yes. But for someone who is, because this person's talking about letting the money sit for 30 years, the principle behind the rule of 72 is you take that [00:49:00] number, 72, Divide it by your average rate of return that you hope to achieve.

And that's how many years it will take your investment to double. So then with that math becomes really fun to watch because it's always that like third, fourth, if you can stretch a fifth double out of your investment, that's when the gains like you can see the potential payoff in that long term investment.


Peter Dunn: often hear me talk about how angry I am at the 22 year old me through 27 because I didn't save as much as I should. And the problem with that is I eliminated the most valuable doubling period. And that's why. That's where the frustration comes from. So Kristen, amazing example of that. You know, after the break, since Damien is off gallivanting.

Oh boy. I would love to see Damien gallivant. Yes. Um, we are going to do the news segment. And you prepared the news segments this week. Did you come up [00:50:00] with witty copy or no? Absolutely not. Okay. Can you read it with lots of inflection and panache? I can try. Okay. And of course, biggest waste of money of the week.

So if you're joining us on the radio, I encourage you to go to Pete, the planner. com or YouTube or wherever you get your social medias and watch the live stream of the show, uh, or which would be a recording of that. I'm Pete, the planner, and this is the Pete, the planner. Show you gave me a very strange look there

Kristen Ahlenius: because you said wherever you get your social media.


Peter Dunn: just being a boom, boom, boom.

Kristen Ahlenius: That was not as bad as the time that you told Brian Pinkins to, or that you said Brian Pinkins as your text number.

Peter Dunn: I love that you're holding on to that as like an arrow in your quiver to shoot it

Kristen Ahlenius: because I laughed. so hard. Like, because jokingly, like even in my job description, it says that I can call you a boomer.

But most of the time I feel that it's a [00:51:00] joke. Like, I don't really mean it. That felt real though. Yeah. That time was that time was pretty real.

Peter Dunn: So my daughter, her, her boomer moment for me is that, and my wife and I both do it is when we're referencing her AirPods. We call them 5, 000 different things.

Earphones, earphones, ear pods, iPods, eye, ear, like we, and we're accidentally doing it because we're just like, I don't, I don't, I don't care. Oh,

Kristen Ahlenius: I learned about, um, as I was told, blue collar AirPods this week, I didn't know that like tool companies make wireless headphones and apparently they're, um, wireless headphones for blue collar workers. I was educated on that this week.

Peter Dunn: Well, they don't look like golf tees. No, they don't.

All right. Um, we've got bomb. [00:52:00] Here's the thing. Someone, someone, and you know, who said, Hey, not a lot of people here at the office today. I'm going to send around a, uh, let's all do lunch. And they haven't sent around a link. I know it's 10 52, but it cracks 10 30. I want to start ordering lunch. Kristen.

Kristen Ahlenius: You're an early lunch

Peter Dunn: guy? You, how do you not, I, I give early lunch energy, do I not? That's

Kristen Ahlenius: fair, that's fair, but you're a morning person, so that tracks. I

Peter Dunn: woke up, I woke up at 4 12 this morning. Ew. Yeah.

Kristen Ahlenius: No.

Peter Dunn: Can't relate. This temple. The heck. Okay. Okay. I gotta go. Bye. Um, yeah, Rick swings, right? I do start looking at lunch menus the day before.

Um, okay, let's, oh yeah, what are we doing? A show. Three, two, [00:53:00] one. This week's biggest waste of money of the week right here on the Pete, the planner show is the Samsung Terrace full sun, 85 inch outdoor television, putting a big TV outdoors. is easy. Selecting one that can stand up to the elements, less so.

Samsung is attempting to put its stamp on the market with the Terrace Full Sun 85 inch TV. As the name suggests, it's made for outdoor viewing with a design that allows it to run for up to six hours in direct sunlight. Or until the temperature reaches 104 degrees Fahrenheit. Can I get a time out here?

Sure. It is always 104 degrees Fahrenheit in the year 2023. We are all burning continue. The Neo QLED panel also offers [00:54:00] 4k resolution. 100 percent color volume, built in apps and IP56 rated splash and dust protection. So while it can't sit out in the rain, a few errant drops won't stop it either. Kristen, Pete, I have all sorts of thoughts about this, but before we get there, I would like to give you a chance.

The world's worst guesser of all time in human. History, actually, before we get to you guessing what this is, how many chickens are on the planet, Kristen? Um,

Kristen Ahlenius: I, I have no idea, like tens of millions, probably, are there not that many? How many did you say? Are there tens of millions? Of what?

Peter Dunn: Chickens. Tens of millions?

No. According to a recent report, there's somewhere north [00:55:00] of 36 billion chickens on the planet. Oh my. And it makes sense because I think I've personally led to the destruction of at least five chickens this week like the one Average sized man with an average size appetite Consumed at least five chickens prior to 11 30 kristin.

How much does the 85 inch outdoor television cost?

Kristen Ahlenius: 85 inch it costs

Peter Dunn: Kristen, what is the rule on this show? Multiply it by 10? It costs 20, 000. Why? Exactly! That's why it's this week's Bath, Wash, and Laundry of the Week. Kristen, I, I have a side porch, dare I call it a courtyard. Courtyard. And it does not have a TV on it. However, during the fall, I will [00:56:00] bring out a projector and on the side of my house or on the side of the porch, I will project like a Monday night football game or something.

And I will watch TV outside on a giant thing. Um, why would you pay 20, 000 to watch? And by the way, in the image, I know this is a radio show, it is a covered porch. So there's no need for the direct sunlight thing. It's a complete waste of money.

Kristen Ahlenius: Well, not only that, but if it was in direct sunlight, you know how quickly technology is going to reach 104 degrees in the summer?

Peter Dunn: I have one glass of bourbon, I'm 104 degrees instantly. Kristen, what is in the news? This

Kristen Ahlenius: week, I saw this article. Oh, lovely. I saw this article about statistics that highlight how much we waste on non essentials. And I thought it would be kind of fun for us to go through some of these. So there was a poll by ladder, I believe, [00:57:00] that said, I will have you guess.

What do you think is the amount per year that Americans per person one. Waste on non essentials.

Peter Dunn: Is this a dollar amount? Yes, I assume. Correct. Per person, per year. Non essential. Can you define non essential? I cannot. Oh. I'm sorry. You will not or you cannot? I cannot. Okay, well. Things you don't need, Pete. I don't know.

Okay, so basically everything other than saltines and, and, uh.

Kristen Ahlenius: I'm you need a house. You

Peter Dunn: need to Aquafina. Um, I don't, um, 10, 000 a person,

Kristen Ahlenius: 18, 000

Peter Dunn: per person. Oh, no, these non essentials.

Kristen Ahlenius: Hold on. I'm going somewhere with this. Do you want to take a guess at, because they were talking about different categories of things that aren't essential, one of them, luxury goods.

Do you know what the global market is for luxury goods? Total [00:58:00] dollars.

Peter Dunn: I mean, it's got to be a trillion

Kristen Ahlenius: dollars, 1. 45 trillion. Yeah, but

Peter Dunn: luxury goods are things like a 20, 000 TV that can only get to 104 degrees. I'll tell you this. If that TV gets COVID, it's going to spike to 104 a lot sooner as I've dealt with.

Yeah. So Kristen, I don't, I mean, this study is interesting, but like literally almost everything is not essential,

Kristen Ahlenius: but the one that I think you'll love. Yeah. Okay. What percentage of Americans currently spend money on a storage unit?

Peter Dunn: Oh my gosh, I used to give like I've written so many articles slash blog posts with hot takes about storage units.

I think I was just like passive aggressively calling out my parents. Um, what percentage of Americans I, I think I used to know this statistic. I'm going to go with 40%.

Kristen Ahlenius: 21 percent currently have a storage unit. But another 15 percent have [00:59:00] plans to leverage the use of a storage unit.

Peter Dunn: I used to, I, I, like, so here's the other thing that Ben has been doing around the office this week is he'll grab, he grabbed a copy of my first book, which I wrote in 2009.

I was a younger man then. And he's been putting quotes in the Slack channels of like really dumb things that I said from the book. Like, now remember something's 50 percent off. It still costs 50%. Like, like these dumb things. And so the storage unit has got me thinking, uh, of a thing I used to say is storage units are when you pay to store, pay people to store stuff.

Where if you could just sell the stuff to people to store stuff, they just so dumb now. I'm just upset

Kristen Ahlenius: Okay. Okay. Uh, so the next news story Visa and MasterCard prepare to raise credit card fees Merchants could actually end up paying an extra five hundred and two million dollars annually due to the [01:00:00] fee hikes Visa and MasterCard are planning to increase their fees in October and then in April in 2022 US merchants paid an estimated 90, 000 $3 billion in Visa and MasterCard fees, which was up from 33 billion in 2012.

So in a decade we had a 300, is that right? 300% increase in credit card fees? The good news is that lawmakers recently reintroduced legislation in both the House and the Senate that would give merchants the ability to process many of these car. Uh, credit card transactions over alternate networks, so I'm sure that we'll have a resolution

Peter Dunn: there.

Yeah So initially what this story is saying is that merchants are the ones paying these fees and then yeah Certain merchants meaning the savvy ones will pass them right on to you and me I always like the old school businesses that don't First of all, a lot of places don't take American Express because they've got higher processing fees.

And then businesses that don't take credit cards in general, they're like, no, why am I breaking off 2. 7 [01:01:00] percent of my profits to, to these. These companies, do you still have businesses in your area? By the way, I drove by your area last weekend. Do you still have businesses in your area that do not accept credit cards?


Kristen Ahlenius: yeah. Yeah. Or they pass the fee on to you. Like if they do because it's necessary, they just say, I'll run your card, but it's going to cost you the 3 percent like up front so that you see it, which I actually prefer because when it's just built into the price, it's a 500 million a year industry that no one's really thinking about.

I think that awareness is It's generally helpful

Peter Dunn: for us. I think too, if you process, I, I, I, I, I used to know this. I think if you process your transaction as a debit card, it's less fees for the merchant than if you do as a credit card, right?

Kristen Ahlenius: Yeah, I, it has something to do with the networks that are available because that's what they're trying to do with credit cards.

And I don't know if all debit cards do that, but some do that. So there isn't that third party

Peter Dunn: fee. Chris, let's end the show and send [01:02:00] people on their way. It is a holiday weekend. Uh, it's a Labor Day, so we celebrate labor by not working. Monday. That's a hot take. Man, I, I've just come to terms like I'm just an old guy with unoriginal takes and then now I have a radio show that it's been around for a while.

Kristen, special plans for you this weekend? Not

Kristen Ahlenius: really a whole lot. Yard

Peter Dunn: work, I think. Fantastic. I'm filled with cooking and dad jokes. That's my life. All right, everybody. Thanks for listening to whatever this was. Sending you good vibes because good vibes are all that's in the budget. By the way, there are mugs being made that say that now.

I'm Pete the Planner and this is the Pete the Planner Show. We are really creating swag that says that. That's awesome. Did you know that? I didn't know that. They aren't necessarily for sale, which sounds really dumb too. Um, it's really, it's a long story. Ben. That

Kristen Ahlenius: Ben. [01:03:00]

Peter Dunn: This is a fun show. That was good. It's the new camera for you, I think.

Kristen Ahlenius: It's, uh, The better lighting for me, I

Peter Dunn: think, yeah, you, you, so that way you're less like, not self conscious and you're just like, my hair looks amazing. You still, you still gaffawed when I don't do that. Oh, why don't, what's wrong with this? I don't know. I don't need

Kristen Ahlenius: to see my face up that

Peter Dunn: close. You have a mirror at your house lady.

I don't

Kristen Ahlenius: really use it, but my, I'm also using portrait mode on because my Mac has portrait mode. I didn't know that. So I've been using that, which is helpful.

Peter Dunn: All right. Um, oh, Danza with quite the callback. Stand in for an invisible Golden Peter. I think she's saying, is the mug that? Um, no. And yes, we did once have a corporate award.

Let's move on. Um, let's move out. Let's be done. Kristen, best of luck with your life. Thanks. We will reconnect [01:04:00] another time. And to the rest of you, I only have one thing to say to you. And in the worlds of Earl Stevens, hip hop mogul E 40, Stay gettin money.